WtF can i do about this? Lecherous men harrasing my daighter, to the extent that she doesnt want to go out on her own!

This happened to me when I was 13. It was like a switch had been flicked and overnight I went from being completely ignored to being constantly harassed by men. It is terrifying. I developed the glare and would tell them to Fuck Off. It worked most of the time, but I'm afraid I was assaulted (mainly 'just' groped) and flashed at on a depressingly frequent basis. I had an hour commute on public transport to school, and had a lot of independence, which I didn't want curtailed so I never told my mum what was happening.

So I'm not sure what advice I have, and I don't want to scare you more than you already are, but the threat of actual assault is very real. An alarm of some kind might help?

Definintely self-defence classes, I can't tell you how much confidence it gave me in my early twenties. Luckily have only had to use it once to block someones arm, nothing too sinister or violent. It's not really about the moves (as you don't want her to ever need to use them), but it will give her confidence.

We ended up moving house for this very reason when my daughter was 12 as she was afraid to walk home from school.in the old neighbourhood!
I don't think there's a solution beyond learning to answer back and learning self defense. Is there a krav maga class in your area she could attend?

I would worry about risk with that sort of thing.

A lot of men can become aggressive when challeneged.

I mean yes absolutely if she feels safe doing so.

I'm o sorry she has to deal with this. I remember getting kerb crawled in my school uniform. I'd have been 14 or 15 and looked no more than 12. I used to get a notebook out of my bag (these were the old days) and make a big show of writing down the car number. They would drive off pretty quickly.

Please note that, with hindsight, that was foolhardy of me and I am NOT suggesting your daughter does this or interracts with them in any way. However it used to make me smile and feel I was in control. If there is something similar, but safe, that your daughter could do it might help her feel better.

Filming people on your phone can be effective, would she do that?

Most back off as soon as they realise their shitty behaviour could be made public, in my experience. And if they don't then she has evidence for the police if needed.

Yes that Is it I think nothing.

here

letting her know this is normal and standard for women and most of us don't know what the fuck to do might be comforting even if it's fuckign dispiriting at the same time

everydaysexism?

She's so young to have to deal with this, it's horrific. These men are despicable for feeling entitled to do this and it is a failure of our society that they can do so without fear of consequences.

I would talk to her as @3TresTrois has described, and just try to support her to feel able to ignore it and get somewhere safe.

That was brilliant that you reacted that way.

A lot of quieter / shyer girls just freeze (don't make a fuss has been drilled in) - I was one of them when younger.

It shouldn't be on us to deal with it.

And not surprised by bus driver reaction - you made a fuss! Girls shouldn't do that you see.

" It's enough to want to send your kids out with a bloody cricket bat!"

Yes indeed. I wish.

Of course most 13yo girls wouldn't feel up to actually using them and if they did it's them who would be in trouble.

Whole thing is set up to the benefit of male creeps & predators.

There is, as far as I know, a twitter hashtag where you can document street harassment. It’s not official or connected to the police or anything but it might be helpful for her to read and/or post on to see that she really isn’t alone and thag she has somewhere she can record what happened to her.

I remember the first time I took a bus alone at around that age (average height but looked maybe 17 max) and this old dirt looking guy (Maybe 40 but I was a baby so thought he was old!) Moved to the back of the bus to sit by me. Asked if he could take me for a kebab! I looked him square in the eye and told him I was a child and then he slid over so he was pressed against me and stroked my thigh and mumbled something gross, i stood up and slapped his hand away and shouted at him (your a pervert if I see you when I'm with my dad you'll lose that last tooth where my words) immature some may say but I was 13 and being molested so I still say it was a perfectly acceptable response. The bus driver stopped and kicks ME off! It's enough to want to send your kids out with a bloody cricket bat!

The problem is as well that for lots of them any reaction is a result.

Some enjoy upsetting / scaring
Some when you get angry and say something just laugh at you

IME the best thing to do is just ignore and get away but it eats you up inside it really does. Just feeling so angry and having no outlet for it.

It's really hard, 13 is so young. All well and good saying she should say this or that but in reality (and I remember all too well) it's just scary and upsetting and for me anyway I would never have had it in me to do that (although I had by 15 / 16 "fuck off" came easily), your voice just freezes and you don't want to draw attention etc.

Can she wear really shapeless baggy clothes with a hood up so they might not realise she's female? With her height, I'd imagine they might get thrown off the scent?

I wish I had some good advice I really do, the sad thing is of course it should not be up to a 13yo child to manage and deal with the disgusting behaviour of adult men, it's not a reasonable expectation, men need to FUCKING WELL STOP IT but the fuckers won't will they and so it goes on.

I went through most of my secondary school years feelin angry and horribly powerless around this.

Of course when you tell them to fuck off (as I started doing) that can be dangerous they can get very angry, I've didn't have a huge sense of self preservaiton by that point though but most people aren't like that.

Might an attack alarm help her feel safer?
Probably ideally the sort which switch off as well as on, for multiple uses.

I am so sorry and angry that this is happening :(

My daughter is 16. I worry about this too.

I would think about a self defence course. They not only teach how to get out of potentially violent situations, but they teach how to trust your instincts. They may make her feel more in control of a situation and give her the confidence to take her rightful place on the streets.

We can't let men force girls and women into their homes.

Your poor daughter, she should not have to face this.

Shouting 'I'm 13 you paedo' will probably work too.

That's brilliant, wouldn't have occurred to me. Just 'paedophile' shouted at the top of her voice might work even better?

If she was an adult i would tell her to call the police there and then but she is a child and they might try and hurt her if she did that.

The only thing I would advise is that she change her path as soon as she feels she is being followed or harassed, turn and go back the other way or go towards a shop or some people. Don’t engage with the harasser. No eye contact or anything. If she wants she could try and take a sneaky photo of them or their car but I would worry they would get angry if they saw her so maybe best not to. Report any incidences of harassment to the police. It’s a crime.

Your poor girl. It’s enraging, and she shouldn’t have to put up with this shit! But I think you’re going to have to sit her down and have a talk with her so that she feels more empowered to deal with these creeps.

My mum talked to me at around this age about this very thing, after I was flashed at on the tube.

This is not her fault. It is ok for her to feel upset, scared, angry, embarrassed or whatever it is she feels.

It is ok to shout ‘go away/I’ll call the police/get away from me’ at kerb crawlers (re ‘I’m only 13, you paedo’) comment above...I used to say ‘you’re old enough to be my father/grandfather...shame on you and I’ll call the police’). Having a few stock phrases helps when you’re scared, I think.

If she is harassed or followed or touched, she must get to a place of safety ASAP, she can tell you anything, and sometimes the police might need to be called.

Unfortunately, I grew up in a rough area of London where I had to put on a ‘don’t fuck with me face’ and be hyper vigilant at far too young an age (had to walk past a group of men most days on my estate who would shout sexual comments at me at 13/14). It’s awful. But we do have to arm our daughters against reality.

And maybe time to introduce the concept of feminism to her in a little more detail? Never too early

Get a sign, big letters, laminated, saying, 'I'm 12, you sick pervert'

This is absolutely awful, poor poor girl. I have a 13 year old and can't bear to think of her going through this. Could she take some number plates so you can report to the police? Especially if it's the same people

Although neither of those particularly useful for a kerb crawler I appreciate.