DM: Women avoiding new gender neutral toilets in the home office because men can't close the door

I do actually use a menstrual cup but it’s taken me a full year to get to grips with inserting the fucker, and I only persevered because the sheer volume of perimenopausal flooding and monstrous clots means that tampons are no longer an option for me. And it’s a bloody faff changing it if you’re not at home (haven’t yet had the joy of doing so in a gender neutral toilet). Plus I have to wait until DH is out of the house to sterilise the thing as, well, one likes to retain a bit of mystique. It’s certainly not a solution for everyone, never mind for teenagers.

Then there are all the Lady Bountifuls who post on period poverty threads suggesting how a young girl should be given a mooncup to use

YY. Frugal people don't always have a real understanding of grinding poverty, of the sort when even on a sunny day, the world is a cold, grey, hungry place.

When I was homeless and squating the thought of spending a significant chunk of cash on something I might not be able to get up there, keep clean, rely on or just be able to forget I was on my period (From the first day, the feeling of bleeding drove me bonkers) was unthinkable. Even if I had had the sort lockable facilities that would make a more extended sort of sanitary protection change safe. I needed my knickers down for as short a period of time as possible. In, out, shove the new one, knickers up and breath again. Made it without interruption from unstable people. Halleluyah

If I'd had a chunk of money to hand of that sort of size, I would have bought food. And the biggest, cheapest box of reliable tampax I could find. Reliable, known products let me keep my job, cos I could keep reasonably clean, even when reduced to daily ablutions in public toilets.

I was in no position to start experimenting with expensive, fiddly and potential unusable new fangled things.

It's cos women are to blame for everyhing innit

I think it is worse than that.

I got so cross on the AIBU that I went off to find where this was bubbling up from. Found a really good pdf, Woodcock and ... something. Talked about Green Virtue, Green Purity, a sort of Ecological puritanical "there's a speck in your eye! A SPECK !" revival of human failings old.

Did more digging, and came across a fair few forums, that seemed to contain far too many men banging on about tampax and nappies as a first port of call. I got a strong whiff from them, of a desire to go back to a time were men where men, talking important stuff, and women were mostly confined to the home..

Which is where their wives (based on the blokes' and the wives' own description) seemed to spend most their existence. Like a step back in time, but not in the usual "fundie Christian" way I was more aware of.

Their way a woman could be Greened back 70 years. And her purity (eco-wise) was under constant control and criticism. The other women would join in to beat each other up (with a cosh of smug) over who Art Greener Than Thou. While the blokes drove off to go play with teepees.

I reckon that's where it has bubbled up from.

It was a sharply focused lesson that as much as things change, they also stay the same. New tools get invented to do ancient jobs. Sometimes with a lime coloured paint job as a disguise.

EXACTLY The eco warriors always seem to target womens stuff first.

Then there are all the Lady Bountifuls who post on period poverty threads suggesting how a young girl should be given a mooncup to use.

Womens bodily autonomy seems to fly out the window when it comes to poorer women/girls and their periods.

Ah name your right way up wineglass let the penny drop.

I kept seeing pictures with the cup thing rim down.

Only just occurred to me you turn it wine glass side up to use it.

Still not doing it. But happy that the poky bit doesn't go where I thought it went.

Tampax and I started this journey together. We have been through thick, thin, and rocky post partum patch. We'll walk my vagina to her autumn years, together to the end.

"I got properly shitty about this a few years ago on AIBU. No problem helping the environment. But there seemed to be a disproportionate amount of smarmy smuggyknickered shaming aimed at exactly the sorts of products that allowed women to free themselves from being damn near chained to the home. Female sanitary products, disposable nappies, dishwashers, washing machine, hoovers. These seemed to be the first products of choice to want to eradicate for quite a few people.

Yes they all have a cost to the environment. But go eradicate all the Boys Toys and other "not actually very helpful, or useful, or fun" assorted plastic, energy hogging crap first. "

This! I always notice this as well.

It's cos women are to blame for everyhing innit.
Also we should be prepared to work harder to achieve whatever it is (not something that happens so much the other way around)

Then, and only then, you can come and get snotty with me cos this vagina is too old to learn new tricks and does not want an upside down rubber wineglass shoved up it.

😂😂😂 and, er, 🍷(sorry, didn’t know how to rotate it. But it does have some red stuff in it!)

Could it have been an environmentalist group gone bonkers ?

Like

"show me what product you are using ? This came packaged in fish murdering plastic !"

"You've barely even bled on it and you are chucking rather than using it as medium to raise seedlings ! A tree died for that pad !!"

" Why aren't you using a one of those cups things you shove up your jacksie ? Do you hate voles ? Do You ? DO YOU !"

I got properly shitty about this a few years ago on AIBU. No problem helping the environment. But there seemed to be a disproportionate amount of smarmy smuggyknickered shaming aimed at exactly the sorts of products that allowed women to free themselves from being damn near chained to the home. Female sanitary products, disposable nappies, dishwashers, washing machine, hoovers. These seemed to be the first products of choice to want to eradicate for quite a few people.

Yes they all have a cost to the environment. But go eradicate all the Boys Toys and other "not actually very helpful, or useful, or fun" assorted plastic, energy hogging crap first.

Then, and only then, you can come and get snotty with me cos this vagina is too old to learn new tricks and does not want an upside down rubber wineglass shoved up it.

Thank god the menopause is well under way. At least soon I will have an ecologically acceptable foof again.

Making women show their dirty sanitary towel or tampon is a way to humiliate and bully them. It shows that the men have control of this shared space.

But...we believe intimidating menstruating women who may or may not be allies is justifiable and will help our cause because ..."

I still don't get it.

Barracker me neither

Apart from "because they were twats"? I can't think of any motivation whatsoever!

thanks for the link to the other thread

I accidentally posted there to say thanks, oops.

I would like to know what they thought they were achieving but I presume the answer is just that they believe in intimidation for their "cause".

Always interesting to see that when people (men, women and children) are actually consulted, they don't want gender neutral toilets. But they're never asked. That's the only way this nasty policy has got where it is - via bullying, intimidation and by not asking people what they prefer.

Someone help me out.
Why were the men guarding the sanitary bins and forcing women to show them used sanpro?

What reason did they give?
I know the world is nuts and I'm pretty good at guessing motivations usually, but I can't riddle this one out.

May OP WeAreGerbil wrote:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/dirty-protest-over-somerville-college-oxfords-genderneutral-loos-bf2jk50lc

"A term after an Oxford college introduced gender-neutral lavatories, male students have carried out a “dirty protest” over losing their urinals.

Last week they urinated on the floor of the “gender-neutral” cubicles in the bar at Somerville College, Oxford, and wrote on the wall: “We want our f urinals back”, according to an email sent by the president of the junior common room, Niall Macklin. In a message entitled “I can’t believe I am writing this”, Macklin said: “[Last night] someone took it upon themselves to urinate on the floor of one of the cubicles and inscribe ‘We want our f urinals back’. If you have a problem with the changes please use the democratic process and not dirty protests.

“Otherwise if you could refrain from being a barbaric idiot that would be great.”

Somerville students voted in January to replace “male” and “female” signs with the words “gender-neutral toilets with cubicles”. The lavatories in question no longer feature urinals but have cubicles with male and female symbols.

Somerville, which opened in 1879, was one of Oxford’s first women’s colleges and is Margaret Thatcher’s alma mater. It declares on its website that it was “founded to include the excluded”.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3241624-dirty-protest-over-somerville-college-oxford-s-gender-neutral-loos

See also 'Gender Neutral toiletgate' at NUS TRans 18 conference:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237230-NUS-Conference-breaks-down-after-the-UK-Border-Force-Arrive

This crap is going on at all universities. It’s much worse at some (Goldsmith’s is notorious). It’s a very strange time to be working in a university. On the one hand, academics are supposed to have freedom of speech. On the other hand, there isn’t another job I can think of where, if you say that a penis isn’t female or that women need sex-segregated spaces, a mob of activists from the Students’ Union will be instantly mobilising outside your building demanding the burning of the witch, and writing to the Vice Chancellor demanding you’re sacked.

Is there no muttering in the halls of uni power about the need to not give an inch cos it becomes a million miles ?

Where the next thing you know you are on the news pathetically begging a bunch of your students to let you go for a wee.

Which recent examples have shown tends not to be fab for enrolment.

Did the bods at the top miss that, or just fail to learn anything from it ?

Re men's apparent need to wee outside: growing up, my brothers were allowed to wee outside when they were little if there was no toilet around whereas I was never given this option and had to hold it in, so I have only associated weeing with toilets. Often little boys are allowed to wee outside when they need it and just never grow out of this. I never let my son do it as I don't want him to openly piss on walls when drunk as an adult!

"No urinals for women of course I guess they're meant to go squat behind a car somewhere"

No I think it's that women are airy, fairylike beings who don't do anything as crass as need to pee.

If I were a bloke I'd be utterly fucked off at losing my urinals and having sanitary disposal stuff blocking the doors.

I mean we put up with it because we need them and because we're socialised to but I think a lot of men won't take this lying down.

Why on earth didn't they make some toilets mixed and leave some single sex? Although - the "mixed" ones would have become male by default and so that would have been precious toilet space lost to the women.

I wonder if lots of men don't see it the same way as us becasue TBH many of them train themselves to only crap at home, and they can piss anywhere they like really. They know about periods and crying and makeup and whatnot but it's all theoretical really isn't it. When confronted with the reality of mixed toilets maybe they would say no thanks. BUT, that's not what happens is it. What happens in the women quietly stop using them (and go and cry in a storage cupboard, pay extra at lunch to have a drink somewhere to use the toilet) and men say well the women aren't complaining there's no issue.

I mean women's toilets are awful, we've been saying for years they don't meet our needs, but nothing happens does it.

Toilets are a big issue for women's ability to be out in the world. Saw a thing yesterday about the councils shutting down the public loos - this has a much larger impact on women than men yet this is never acknowledged.

There are men's street urinals put up in Brixton every Friday & Saturday to cater for the hordes of gentrified drunks - no doors on them at all it's just stand up and piss in public. No urinals for women of course I guess they're meant to go squat behind a car somewhere

A PP kindly linked to the thread with the poster (Clairetrees1) who mentioned the university open day experience:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3322488-GRC-and-Toilets?msgid=79857003

This crap is going on at all universities. It’s much worse at some (Goldsmith’s is notorious). It’s a very strange time to be working in a university. On the one hand, academics are supposed to have freedom of speech. On the other hand, there isn’t another job I can think of where, if you say that a penis isn’t female or that women need sex-segregated spaces, a mob of activists from the Students’ Union will be instantly mobilising outside your building demanding the burning of the witch, and writing to the Vice Chancellor demanding you’re sacked.

OMD I've only just seen that about the uni

I know unis are being awful at the moment but that's horrific

were they named on social media by any chance?

Certain men will NOT close the door because it’s their territory. They have never closed the door and they won’t start now just because XX people are there.

Why the hell should they change the habits of a lifetime just to suit women ? Tell me what other area of life that they have done so without a HUGE battle ?

NameChangedAgain18

Jesus.

I suppose not being exposed to that sort of outrageous bullshit is some consolation for DS point blank refusing to go to England for uni.

Does anybody have links to the original thread ? I'm often asked for advice about English unis by a lot of parents (I teach IELTS prep courses). Any specific unis where this issue flourishes ? Or is it everywhere ?

potentially, when accommodation is oversubscribed) twin bedrooms with self-IDed women (the sort with penises). If you’re unhappy to find yourself sharing a bedroom with a penis-owner, then presumably it’s off to the re-education camp for you.

YY. A poster here who was responsible for allocating university accommodation has talked about this in the past.