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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Witch hunts and gender-critical feminists

107 replies

heresyandwitchcraft · 16/08/2018 01:43

As you may have surmised from my username, I see parallels between the witch-hunts of yesteryear and the current movement to label gender-critical women T*RFs alongside disturbing calls to use violence against such females.

I personally have found it interesting to briefly look back at the history of witch trials to get some perspective on the misogyny I perceive in this "debate." Being accused of witchcraft in many countries was (and in some places still is!) a charge disproportionately leveled at females. One might idly ponder if current transgender ideology arguably relies too heavily on belief in an unproveable/"supernatural" force (e.g. that of the "feminine/masculine" essence that transcends biology) and whether there are commonalities between such views and the beliefs in magic of yore. Who knows? Certainly both "sides" in this "debate" appear to accuse each other of moral panic, and persecution.

However, it is definitely worth thinking about historical misogyny. In my post these will be predominantly from a European perspective. I recently found out that "scolding" used to be an actual crime - reserved predominantly for angry, quarrelsome females for speaking out of turn, gossiping, or behaving rudely. This was punishable by the "cucking stool," where she would be strapped to a chair and dunked underwater. Or she might be made to wear what was known as a "scold's bridle"/"witch's bridle," which physically prevented her from speaking lest she cut her tongue, and was typically accompanied by public humiliation.

During many witch trials, once you were labelled a witch you either confessed your sins for a quick execution or you professed your innocence. If you kept denying witchery, you would be systematically broken down using brutal means. In some places, they would tie you up and throw you in the water first to test the witchcraft accusation. If you floated then your witchcraft was confirmed and you would meet a very grim fate. If you sank then you were innocent but at high risk of drowning. You'd likely be asked to name your "co-conspirators," so that the hunters could root out all the witches in the area. Importantly, there was usually no dignified way out once you were branded a witch.

One might ask whether there are any similar principles of misogyny that hold true now. I have stopped worrying as much about being called a modern witch because these historical examples weirdly remind me (eerily) of what women are currently being asked to do: shut up, stop thinking about certain issues, and play nice to keep the peace. I do not think it was an accident that there is a feminist theory that midwives (those specialists of the female body) allegedly were over-represented in being accused of witchcraft. I do not think it is completely out of the blue that it is now the female body which is again being erased from the public domain - only to be spoken of in hushed, convoluted terms. I do not think it is merely coincidental that some trans activists wonder whether women even exist, much less have the authority to speak with authority on the female experience. And I certainly do not think it's outside the pattern for misogyny that the main people being targeted in this debate are dissenting females, with some corners of the internet seeming to wish to enforce corporeal punishment on women simply for speaking, as a consequence for not acquiescing completely to an ideology.

All I can say is that I may very well be considered to be an evil witch. I know in my own heart that I have no ill-intent towards anyone, but I have no way of proving this. I have come to terms with that idea. I now take accusations against other people with a healthy pinch of skepticism - the way I would have wanted society to consider those accused of witchcraft in the past. I try to continually re-evaluate my own position and carefully examine evidence. Throughout all this I have only kept thinking it is important for the other "witches" to be able to have their opinions heard instead of calling for them to be burned at the stake.

Thanks MN for still allowing us to express ourselves. Special thanks to all the heretics, especially the ones who display so much courage and patience on a daily basis. I personally have come to see this moment in history as just the latest in a long line of outspoken women who are being outcast for daring to have an unorthodox point of view. Women still have voices, even though they may not get the respect that a man who is defending free speech might be afforded, or get any of the broad institutional support provided to some trans rights activists.

Perhaps it is considered uncouth for a woman to say that females are real and exist as their own category, unified by their sex. Humans cannot change their reproductive sex.
Females matter. Feminism was designed to help females.
Please keep talking.
And remember to practice your cackle!

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 08:43

This person thought these academics were just 'testing the water' and that in 6 months time they would come out as KKK members and white supremacists.

These people (and agree there are many) have no sense of perspective, nuance or self awareness and can only see the world in a "current social justice causes are good, everyone against that bad" immature way. Social media by its ability to create echo chambers and block all opinions you don't like exacerbates this.

PeakPants · 16/08/2018 08:39

Yes, it's very similar to the witch hunts. The very statement that 'women should be allowed to have spaces where only other natal women can be' used to be common sense and a matter of fact. Now it results in your employer being contacted and you being sent death threats online. It's absolutely disgusting.

I often find myself doubting what I think (because I am by nature quite insecure) because all I keep hearing is how horrible and hateful my views are. Then I keep reminding myself that, no, I do not hate anybody.

I am not like apartheid supporters because I do not want to segregate trans people from the rest of society. I don't want them to be discriminated against at work. I want them to live a safe and happy life.

I am not being hateful by saying women should have separate spaces. If that was the case, surely I would be hateful for wanting to exclude non-trans men as well? In history, nobody has ever labelled women hateful for wanting their own spaces. It has been dismissed as unnecessary or precious perhaps, but not hateful. So why is it now suddenly hate to want to keep what we fought for.

I am not being hateful when I say that trans people should have their own safe spaces and representation. I will even help them fight for those. Lily Madigan should be trans officer, not women's officer. It is not evil to say that trans people should have their own changing rooms and prison wings and sporting categories. They are valid in their own right as trans people. Trans women have different embodied experiences to natal women. Why should we pretend that they don't and that their experiences are identical (and then tell natal women that their embodied reality is irrelevant because it seems to suggest different experiences)? Who are we really helping?

Why are these woke people and their allies fixated on there being only two categories- male and female? Why can't we have a third category with its own spaces and representation? You claim to be enlightened, but you are silencing people.

I think there is panic setting in, hence the constant reference to hate where there has been no hate expressed. TRAs and allies, if they have a modicum of intelligence, KNOW that their ideology is as flimsy as a house of cards. It will topple at any time and they are desperately buying time by calling people bullies, haters and apartheid supporters.

I saw someone on twitter having a go at some of the feminist academics who have come out as gender-critical. This person thought these academics were just 'testing the water' and that in 6 months time they would come out as KKK members and white supremacists. REALLY? You think feminist academics who have devoted their lives to research and activism on human rights and philosophy are secretly hugely right-wing and hate all minorities? Yeah, sounds likely.

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 16/08/2018 07:52

They have to demonise us, because otherwise people might listen.

And then where would we be?

scepticalwoman · 16/08/2018 07:50

So very true! Thank you.

LazyTuesdayAfternoon · 16/08/2018 07:28

Completely agree.

There are a number of parallels.

Bowlofbabelfish · 16/08/2018 07:07

Agree. One of the worst ones I read about the witchcraft trials was a guy who made advances to a young woman, she rebuffed him and he denounced her as a witch and tortured her himself to force a confession, resulting in several women as well as the young woman dying. It was used to settle scores and punish women.

We’ve never been able to say NO have we? Ever.

This is just the latest manifestation of the deeply rooted misogyny in society.

Lucyinthewardrobe · 16/08/2018 05:07

Thanks heresy, excellent analysis of what’s going on here.