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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transexual voices - twitter thread

113 replies

OnThisHill · 16/08/2018 01:38

twitter.com/tsvoices/status/1029863492197785600?s=19

Please read this, I really feel the tide is turning.
We are being heard. The message is getting out, but sadly, I think the gender activists have created a climate where a backlash will come, and these guys are saying the same.

BUT - I think we're reaching tipping point...... What do you all think?

OP posts:
Melamin · 17/08/2018 22:08

Thanks. This all gets confusing and it is good to hear from people with clear thoughts.

I did not like the use of the term 'reasonable women'. It smacks of a hierarchy of value judgement. They can't pick and choose, they must take the rough with the smooth. Women are what they are.

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 21:56

My point is, if you’re going to claim to be different, you actually have to be different. And they are claiming they are different to TRAs, because gender dysphoria, yet they use the same reversals etc and members claim ‘woman’, ‘lesbian’ and ‘mother’. They have no authority. They are rank and file transgender activists.

My post provided this group with a solution I know they will not buy into, because they’re hypocrites.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 17/08/2018 21:54

What Miranda said

I mean I think it's really good that different groups who are all experiencing forms of appropriation by the same problematic ideology speak up because reining in that ideology is in all our interests. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with or accommodate the ideologies of those different groups either.

Oldstyle · 17/08/2018 21:41

Sorry - haven't been able to access the interactions, either directly or via your post. For some reason the images turn into symbols when I try to enlarge them. And I'm not sure how to find out who is in the group so I can't assess moral authority on any basis other than the actual statement.
Could we agree about the group statement in its own right even if the interactions (presumably from just one of the group) are inappropriate? Or does the latter cancel out the former in your view?

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 21:29

If you actually read my post, I’m less concerned with their statement rather more concerned with the pretty blatant male chauvinism in their interactions and that given this group includes men who describe themselves as ‘mother’ or ‘lesbian’ it has no moral authority.

Oldstyle · 17/08/2018 20:51

PS and I've just checked out their (genuine) webpage which acknowledges the omissions and 'errors' and explains that they are rewriting to take account of these. So I'm going to go ahead and appreciate them fulsomely. Thanks TSVs Flowers Flowers Flowers

Oldstyle · 17/08/2018 20:35

Huge respect to you Miranda; you’ve been actively involved in this way longer than I have and it's entirely possible that a) I’m being naïve and/or b) I'll end up feeling as you do about the TS Voices statement but...

Writing for public consumption is difficult at the best of times. Writing when people on all sides (and none) are ever ready to go on the attack and when you have skin in the game is almost impossible. Something is omitted that one reader thinks is essential, something is included that another considers an appalling distraction, words become 'literal violence', grammatical errors are proof of stupidity, whataboutery responses suffocate the central argument and distort the original intention. And we are all left more angry, more distressed, and less able to acknowledge each other’s vantage point or simple humanity.

If the TSV statement is read for what it actually does say, and with a presumption of integrity, I think that the OP is entitled to her sense of hope. The group explicitly acknowledge that ‘safety would be compromised’ by self-ID and by men’s ‘demands of access to female only spaces, their frequently demonstrated express misogyny, disrespect for the biological needs and specific rights of young girls, mothers, lesbians and many other, traditionally, female only, social groups.’ They also differentiate between ‘women’ and ‘transsexuals’ and state their objection to ‘any “trans rights” encroaching and gradually erasing women’s rights’. Of course the statement is written from a transsexual vantage point and mostly deals with their concerns. That is entirely legitimate; they, as we, are threatened by trans ideology. But there is an explicit intent to hear and understand women’s concerns and to find common ground.

Their statement has lifted me.

My hope is that, rather than dismissing them as ‘just silly’, ‘whining’ or ‘ridiculous’ we might start with an assumption of sincerity and an acceptance that there is indeed a common enemy and we are stronger together.

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 20:29

It died a death for exactly the same reasons as above.

R0wantrees · 17/08/2018 19:13

What happened with the TSRainCrew?

mirandayardley · 17/08/2018 18:48

My take on the Transsexual Voices Matter fiasco.

Womaningreen · 17/08/2018 15:29

my guess is the faker account thinks it's being satirical? Though I'm not sure.

everything is very surreal Confused

Hulo · 17/08/2018 14:35

It's getting really weird. The first account is still down but the fake account is now stalking people who are discussing it and tweeting at them.

Unfortunately for the fakers, one of their tweets has been liked by our friend Dr Adrian which has blown their cover a bit. And just seen - Jess Bradley is following it too along with a load of other TRAs.

The faker account is also following a lot of GC and radfem twitter accounts too. How can it claim to be honest when it is so obviously mimicking the first one that was set up by GC TS?

terryleather · 17/08/2018 10:13

Once again Lisa so clearly analyses and nails it - that video is spot on, thanks for sharing!

Popchyk · 17/08/2018 09:59

Oh okay.

Will wait until it is back up.

SwearyG · 17/08/2018 09:57

They said yesterday they would take down the account for a few days to sort out some stuff behind the scenes (seems odd to me, why not do that before you launch).

I don’t buy it yet. It all seems too convenient. The “perfect”statement, the account going offline, the troll account (with the usual followers), the account popping back up.

R0wantrees · 17/08/2018 09:56

I think the account commented yesterday that it would shortly be taken down to resolve some things.

Popchyk · 17/08/2018 09:53

Can't see the Twitter thread.

Has the account been suspended because of, and I'm guessing here, transphobia?

fractalplimsoll · 16/08/2018 23:51

I have just watched Lisa M's video and, wow she is so spot on and eloquently blunt.

Some people may have seen my posts under this username about the MH condition Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), formerly Multiple Personality Disorder, and Lisa, as well as ebing spot on about the shortcomings of today's statement, has got to the heart of what I was clumsily trying to say.

That some people out there have this very unwell, mentally disordered thinking, from a variety of MH conditions, and in many ways the psycholgical device of transition that Lisa talks about as working for most transsexuals to manage their internal distress is not working for some people, and that after all this is played out, we will see a backlash, and suffer from not haivng diagnosed and treated these MH condtions.

I am afraid of the backlash for people with DID (which is caused by severe child abuse) and similar MH condtions, as well as the risk that their condtion will also become trivialised and at the same time even further twisted and demonised than in film and some media portrayals.

Because they do suffer and do have disordered thinking, and are not necessarily at all abusive to anyone except themselves, but some people are clearly mentally deranged and disorder and are real risk and that for all our sakes, MH disorder behaviour does need to be recognised, diagnosed and treated. As does narcissism. Narcissism can be a feature of some parts in a DID person. We can still draw boundaries and condemn the behaviour without condemning a whole unwell person, and have some hope to resolve their disordered thinking whilst balancing that hope with keeping the world safe.

One hope that has been dawning on me slowly and more so after listening to Lisa, is that maybe, eventully, when this narcisstic raging disordered bubble has played out as Lisa says, and we women have been forced to draw our all of our boundaries and stand up for them, silence is acquiesence as Lisa says, maybe we will have finally revealed the whole truth about narcissim and disordered and abusive behaviour and the way that certain types of people (men and misogyny) have shaped our world and economies almost as if we are part of one big male dominated personality disordered organism, and that in the end if we persist we will have shone the light on it all so brightly that it will break the cycle.

Perhaps rather than feel disheartened and fearful, that this that is happening now and on such a grand world scale withTwitter and FB etc is a vital and inevitable part of the abuse whackamole, as was Jimmy Saville, and that maybe actually this fight is a good sign that we are dealing with the worst of human psychology and pathology and are getting to the heart of the matter.

I don't know, maybe what I am trying to say is that this is the hardest part of society's psychological therapy if you like - the raw exposing dark truth of the raging harmed and harming that must be unleashed before the healing and progress can start. (Sadly not played out in a safe controlled therapeutic space however...) And that in the end that scales will fall as never before.

I don't want to sound woo as I am not! Just thought (hoped) that actually maybe this is not a failure and a set back, but actually a sign of progress.

Thank you Lisa.

Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 22:11

Brilliant Star

heresyandwitchcraft · 16/08/2018 21:59

Thanks Ereshkigal
I've added threads on Lisa to the FAQs

Melamin · 16/08/2018 21:48

Powerful articles, and powerful video.

R0wantrees · 16/08/2018 21:34

Do read Lisa Muggeridge's article that Ereshkigal has linked. It is as she says, chillingly prescient.

R0wantrees · 16/08/2018 21:32

I noticed India Willoughby & Caitlin Jenna had been tagged into the latest thread... Hmm

Melamin · 16/08/2018 21:28

It seems to have gone down again Hmm