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Original poster

Ladies bathrooms and trans acceptance

155 replies

RosettaStoned · 14/08/2018 21:12

After reading many trans threads on here and other articles online I have come to realise I may have some internal conflict.

I'm generally a very open-minded live and let sort of person, always have been and I can't stand the thought of a person, be it man, woman or whatever, being unable to have their human rights acknowledged and dignified.

However I am opposed to self-identification as I feel it is prone to all sorts of abuse. That's just how I feel and various evidence backs up my concerns.

Anyway, I was reading an article (published 2 years ago) written by a woman about ladies public toilets and the fact that even when they were invented, women of the Victorian era were simply too embarrassed to use them in public.

Tying the point in to trans-issues, the author of the article goes on to say:

So where does that leave the transgender woman who would much rather endure the dirty looks of the ladies' room than the potential fists of the men's room? In a brutally unfair position, unfortunately. They are pioneers, and pioneers have never had an easy time of it. They live in a society that hasn't yet grown to accommodate them, just as ladies' bathrooms once didn't exist because society wasn't ready for women to pee in public. It sounds ridiculous, but that's how it is.

I must state that I don't wish to see a male in a female space unless there is a legitimate reason. But the author's comment about "transgendered people (sic) live in a society that hasn't yet grown to accommodate them" got me questioning my own belief system.

Will my children or my grandchildren (or anyone for that matter) one day look at me as someone with bigoted, old-fashioned views because self-ID will have a more common place in society as time goes on?

I'm perhaps not making myself very clear and before anyone jumps on me, no I am not calling anyone who opposes self-ID bigoted or old-fashioned. I am trying to get across that society changes all the time. In ten years time, self-ID may well and truly be as normal and everyday as wearing socks or drinking a brew. And society will adapt to it whether we want to or not.

What I'm asking is, what if the author makes a valid point? What if one day we do look back and see we were once 'out of touch' with the modern world? I dunno.... has anyone else questioned this?

OP posts:
MrsKCastle · 14/08/2018 21:27

I know what you mean and I think it is possible that at some point, society will accept self-id and/or move to a stage where mixed sex facilities are the norm. It certainly seems as though we're on that path at the moment.

But... Will that be the end point for society? Will that norm endure for hundreds of years as being the norm for a tolerant society? Or will it be exploited by people who want to take advantage and commit crimes?

If we believe and trust the TRAs, then self-id/mixed sex facilities will become the norm with absolutely no threat or harm to females, and we'll all wonder what the big deal was. I hope they're right. I really do.

If they're wrong, females face a time where we need to accept anyone, absolutely anyone, in our spaces, and that could make things very uncomfortable and potentially very dangerous.

Personally, I'd like the right to debate such a huge change- not just the GRA, that's just a tiny part of it, but the wider societal changes. And I'd like to understand why some people are so sure that we'll get the fluffy, utopian version and not the scary one.

Original poster
RosettaStoned · 14/08/2018 21:25

Or have I completely got the wrong end of the stick with Self-ID? It's open to abuse and the last I checked that's what people (mostly us women) don't want, so I don't understand how 'it won't happen'. I thought you didn't have to 'change sex' (even though you can't). I thought you just had to say you were man/women/non-binary etc

OP posts:
Knicknackpaddyflak · 14/08/2018 21:23

Less pioneers than colonisers. The Native Americans weren't seen as 'ready' for the modern world when their territory was taken over, they were redefined, re organised and modernised. That's what is happening here.

If transgendered people were fighting for a third space, for their own provision, everyone here would be fighting right with them. Likewise an end to male violence, toxic masculinity and gender hierarchies that is the root cause of transwomen being afraid in mens facilities, and a hell of a lot of teenaged girls desperately trying to identify out of having to be women in this society. 70% of the children identifying as trans are girls. A modern society that has safety from harassment, assault and sexual violence - that I'm ready for. A modern society that cares about privacy and dignity for all - that I'm ready for.

But the trans movement is not about privacy and dignity for women at all, it doesn't think women are entitled to it. It uses highly misogynist and sexually violent language, threats and actions to silence, intimidate and control women. It polices and controls women's language and wants to remove women's freedoms. It doesn't care about women's religions or cultures. It wants to use police time and lawful punishment for those who commit blasphemy against what are quasi religious beliefs. You must obey, and lie convincingly to be safe.

That isn't modern at all. It's all very 15th century.

Original poster
RosettaStoned · 14/08/2018 21:23

No it doesn't @noeffingidea and I truly appreciate what you are saying. But isn't that the point of changing the GRA? To enable people to use facilities aligned with the 'gender' Hmm that they feel more akin to rather than their birth sex?

OP posts:
noeffingidea · 14/08/2018 21:19

In ten years time , self ID may well and truly be as normal and every day as wearing socks or drinking a brew.
This won't happen, because it's impossible to change biological sex and everyone knows that. Identifying as something doesn't turn us into that thing.

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