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Original poster

BBC reality check on trans prisoners

87 replies

FermatsTheorem · 13/08/2018 10:09

Let's play that great gameshow activity "what crucial piece of information is missing from this report?"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

Those numbers add up to more than 60 because some prisoners are serving time for more than one offence.

We don't know the gender of the victims or perpetrators in these cases.

Which is why, BBC, it is important to put in a breakdown of overall numbers of prisoners in the UK, numbers of sex offenders and number of violent offenders - BY SEX!

And, gosh, guess what, "Reality Check"? This information is but a quick google away, because the government actually put the figures online for us - they're not hidden away in a cellar with broken stairs in a locked filing cabinet with a sign saying "beware of the leopard."

From the report for 2017:
"In 1900 there were 152 male prisoners per 100,000 men in the population. This rate has increased to 348 per 100,000 in 2017. There were 27 female prisoners per 100,000 head of female population in 1900. In 2017 this rate had decreased to 16 per 100,000."

I believe the current figures are that 98% of the prisoners in the UK convicted of sexual offences are serving time in the male estate.

Sex offending (despite recent much publicised "women do it too" newspaper reports) is overwhelmingly committed by men.

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NothingOnTellyAgain · 13/08/2018 12:37

This innocent eyes OH we don't know the gender of the perpetrators of all these sex offenders!

Ask ANYONE on the street who it is that carried out most sex offences and they will tell you MEN becuase the male / female ratio is SO disproportionate as to make it pointless to even consider a different answer.

Also, what relevance does the "gender" of the victims have? Do they mean sex? If it is a baby or toddler that has been abused, do the BBC put them in a "victim has no gender" category?

NothingOnTellyAgain · 13/08/2018 12:35

"We don't know the gender of the victims or perpetrators in these cases."

lol

How many conviction for rape?

MipMipMip · 13/08/2018 12:06

Would have been nice if they'd mentioned self ID as they pointed out that those with a GRC were excluded from these stats.

nauticant · 13/08/2018 11:52

I wonder if the commissar who spun the article was the writer or someone down the chain who had to vet it politically?

Melamin · 13/08/2018 11:47

But the writers of the report bend over backwards to say "so many complicating factors though, how could we possibly say for sure?"

Quite.

This is what I found reading it. Totally blinding with 'whatabouts'

nauticant · 13/08/2018 11:28

In a grim way, that Reality Check report is actually amusing to read. The hard figures are consistent with the claim by Fair Play for Women that 41% of transgender women in prison are convicted sex offenders.

But the writers of the report bend over backwards to say "so many complicating factors though, how could we possibly say for sure?"

How about this. Fair Play for Women appear to have highlighted a very worrying issue that could put women* in danger. It might be time for the government to assess whether the risk is there and if it is, to change policies to deal with the risk.

  • FermatsTheorem's comment above about the missing red flag
LangCleg · 13/08/2018 11:17

It says here:

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04334/SN04334.pdf

About 15% of the prison population is serving a sentence for sex offending. If 60 of 125 trans inmates are in for sex offending, the raw data says trans inmates are 320% more likely to be sex offenders than the prison population as a whole.

Good spin, BBC, but some of us actually do proper fact checking and find it unlikely that there are dozens of trans prisoners in the male estate who haven't told the authorities they are trans. Because, y'know, vulnerable prisoners wouldn't bother accessing help, would they?

LangCleg · 13/08/2018 11:12

So, if self-ID comes in, there will be no more case conferences. And the number of trans inmates has gone from 70 to 125 within a year. Great.

Wanderabout · 13/08/2018 10:45

Which is why, BBC, it is important to put in a breakdown of overall numbers of prisoners in the UK, numbers of sex offenders and number of violent offenders - BY SEX!

V good point

Wanderabout · 13/08/2018 10:44

Remember - those 125 transgender inmates only include people who have had a prison case conference. It won't include transgender people who haven't identified themselves to the prison service or who already have a gender recognition certificate.

So which prison would a transgender prisoner who hadn't identified themselves be in?

If in the female estate then they ARE choosing their estate.

If in the male estate surely it would be pretty obvious?

Overall the fact check is a good thing, no?

It shows clearly that reliable stats need to be established and released including the gender of trans inmates

It would be good for someone like FPFW to highlight:

  • the contrast between the number of women convicted for sexual assault and the number of trans prisoners the BBC has confirmed.
  • Are Transwomen counted as affected by the new guidelines for women prisoners, suggesting they should be treated more leniently.
IAmNotAntiWomen · 13/08/2018 10:20

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Original poster
FermatsTheorem · 13/08/2018 10:16

Oh, another bit of important context for the BBC - from the Howard League for Penal Reform (so pretty unimpeachable source):
howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Living-among-sex-offenders.pdf

"In March 2014 16 per cent – almost one in six – of the sentenced adult male prison population had been convicted of a sexual offence, yet sex offenders 1 have been excluded from the sociology of imprisonment (Ministry of Justice, 2014). Despite several studies suggesting they are uniquely victimised in prison (see, among others,
Åkerström, 1986; Vaughn and Sapp, 1989; Sparks et al., 1996), almost no research has been undertaken into their distinctive prison experiences. This is particularly striking considering that there are currently almost three times as many imprisoned male sex offenders as there are women in prison, and numerous studies have been undertaken into women’s prison experiences (see, among others, Carlen, 1983; Kruttschnitt and Gartner, 2005; Home Office, 2007)."

That's right - there are three times as many male sex offenders in prison in the UK as there are women in total in prison for any offence.

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