Misgendering.

You've just said you would complain about bullying if people "misgendered" you so yes they are being made to and controlled.

In general it creates a hostile environment for women to have to deal with this kind of coercive control from male people in the workplace.

Ereshkigal

See now heres the thing if you had a genuinely held belief you wanted to be British infact you were applying for British citizenship then I would 100 support you in that after all we are great lol but I feel. you are not so until you do have that belief then let's not pretend it the same.

right bed time hot choccy is waiting and a good book night all

no one makes them do it.

That depends on a number of factors. I'm not sure you're in a position to state that unless you completely pass as the opposite sex.

FloralBunting

you have every right to misgender me I would ask you not. to others would probably think you were rude if you continued and if you worked with me a chose to keep on doing it when asked not to over time then that would be bullying someone which is what you would be dismissed for not misgendering me

I am British. I can identify however I like. Isn't that what people like you believe? I don't have to be British royalty, do I? Why is that not worthy of respect when demanding silly made up nonsense pronouns are respected is?

Ereshkigal

99% actually gender me correctly as I said its very rare that they do misgender me and no one makes them do it. the royalty thing is a legal thing you are not allowed to do it. your not. British are you lol

Why should you have to pander to whimsical nonsense? Either my self identified royalty (although why isn't it as valid as self identity as a woman when you are male?) or the fae/faer business? I know it would undermine your gender identity ideology if you didn't so I can see why you would have to, but 99 per cent of the population would bristle and only do it on pain of dismissal or other sanctions.

Ereshkigal

your majesty I would not unless you are royal as is required simular to dr if your not one. fae yes if they asked me. too then I would respect that I may make mistakes and that would be fine I would. apologie and move on.

Oh and people do often call me the wrong name. It's not a big deal for me.

let me ask you this we are in a meeting at work would you repeatedly misgender me in the meeting even if me or someone else asked you not too. would you continue. if I kept calling you the wrong name or kept telling everyone something that is really important to you but I deliberately got it wrong what would you say to me?

No I wouldn't. Partly out of not wanting to be rude to your face, partly because I don't want to lose my job. But I don't like having to lie. I think it's domineering. It's not actually the "wrong name". If you changed your name that's different. Pronouns are not the same thing. Where does it end, Bespin? If I ask you to call me "your majesty" because I truly believe I am royal should you do so? Do you think if someone wants to be referred to as "fae" or some weird gender pronoun that everyone should have to jump to it?

BertrandRussell

I totally agree with you

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

In a meeting. I would use the pronouns and names you prefer. I believe that to be simple courtesy. I do not think you have the right to accuse me of wanting you dead if I don't. Some people are rude. I think it's rude to refer to me as a girl when I am a woman or as Mrs when I am a Ms. But I do not think I ha r the right to punch someone who does it or call for them to lose their job.

because Rosemary46 it's not equivalent I get called the wrong name all the time and occasionally I I get misgendered accidently. but on one or two occasions I have deliberately been misgendered repeatedly and that as always been around power in the situation its. like I know something about you and I'm going to show. People I know

Ereshkigal

let me ask you this we are in a meeting at work would you repeatedly misgender me in the meeting even if me or someone else asked you not too. would you continue. if I kept calling you the wrong name or kept telling everyone something that is really important to you but I deliberately got it wrong what would you say to me?

Did you read my post Bespin ?

We don’t have to imagine this because it happens to us. Or to a woman we know.

No one thinks it's a hate crime, or literal violence. Or that its ok to punch people who do this.

Why is something a minor irritation when it happens to XX people and a hate crime when it happens to XY people?

But it's also an exercise of power and control over someone to force them to lie and adhere to a belief system that they don't accept and which is both directly and indirectly damaging to their own interests and rights as a class. Why is it so important that everyone must believe or pretend they do? Why do they care so much? I don't believe in gender identity ideology. No one is going to make me.

see if you can try to imagine this happening all the time as soon as you walkout the door and when you correct them no one listens and they continue to do that, in fact some of them go out of there way to do it. I don't think. misgendering is literally violance and intent is importent people make mistakes and we know. when they do, some poeple use it as power and if that happens all the time to somone it can have a deviating impact on them. if you experienced being called the wrong name occasionally at this level then yes it would be equivalent.

I am frequently called by an incorrect name as my actual name sounds similar to a common name.
I'm frequently addressed as Mr Stroppy in letters as my first name is one both men and women use.
I do receive the odd letter addressed to Mrs Stroppy-Partners-Surname, especially from elderly relatives.
I have so often been called Mrs when I have always been Ms.
Always. And many of them have been misogynists or old farts making a point.
I've never felt I needed to punch someone, claim 'literal violence' or make a formal complaint. I've never threatened violence, compared my experience to the survivors of abuse, nor sue.
Nor have any women I've known.
Funny that.

Rosemary46 very clear examples of how women can be called the wrong name in loads of ways. Excellent.

In Maoist China, it meant killing off the older generation to remove political opposition.

It’s of note that the usual intergenerational frictions have ramped up lately, with a lot of antipathy directed towards baby boomers. Some of the ageist discourse post-referendum was shocking.

I cannot decide whether that Stonewall 'guidance' was written by a not-bright person, or as condescending AF.

IME these two things are definitely not mutually exclusive! The Dunning Kruger effect is strong among trans advocates.

I bet Ed doesn't use "they" in the Lodge.

DuckingGoodPJs
There's also the issue of how much research must one do. A poster on a recent thread about Edward Lord had looked at their (Edward Lord's) Wiki page which at the time used 'he /him'. Other posters had either seen Lord's Twitter bio or had read an article, possibly from the Times, which included mention of preferred pronouns they/them.

The poster had used the 'he/him' pronouns in good faith. I think Wiki may have been updated now. Do we have to pronoun-fact check and if so where & how frequently?