Misgendering.

R0wantrees I was specifically commenting on its relevance to the quoted post, rather than the discussion as a whole.

I've never understood this 'creating an identity' thing. My identity is me - I'm Vicky. I am, therefore I am.

Gronky Not sure why you believe SingeBuggerCack's point isn't relevent to the discussion?

Apropos of nothing, I continue to muse about my belief that Kleenex will never go out of business.

@SingeBuggerCack

What you quoted was a discussion specifically about new (non-binary) pronouns rather than transgendered individuals as a whole. Sorry for the confusion and the resulting time spent composing your post.

The word of a narcissist is not the same status as that of the victim.

To insist someone calls them something, whatever the something is, apart from the convention of their given name, is dominance behaviour - a sure red flag. Why else do we have titles that enforce patriarchical hierarchy like Lord, Sir, HRH?

It's obedience training as had been said before.

I'm not an expert on transgender issues but my understanding is that it signifies a separation from binary gender options, in other words, both recognising their differences without encroaching on biological female space.

well, let’s see. Would you consider advising women attending a woman’s march not to centre the march around their reproductive biology not ‘encroaching on biological female space’?

mobile.twitter.com/munroebergdorf/status/954775972863193088?lang=en

How about the cotton ceiling, and telling lesbians, particularly young lesbians who may well be caught up in the ideology themselves, that unwillingness to sleep with transwomen with intact penises is transphobic? Is that ‘encroaching on biological female space’?

How about Marie Dean who was jailed for what the Guardian originally reported as a ‘string of burglaries’ but actually consisted of breaking into the bedrooms of teenage girls and filming themselves masturbaiting into stolen underwear? Bit of an encroachment, do you think?

At least Marie Dean is in a men’s prison. Jessica Winfield, formerly Martin Ponting and a double rapist, is now in a women’s prison. Would you say housing a rapist in with some of the most vulnerable women in society, who are themselves much more likely to have been victims of rape than the rest of society, is an encroachment on biological female space?

None of which is to say I think transwomen are all dangerous or sexual predators. I don’t. I think they show a pattern of violence that is far closer to male violence than it is to female.

Either you don’t know enough about the issue or you’re not posting in good faith.

how unevolved they think I am

I really don't think you're unevolved or mentally limited in any way. I was concerned there was some sort of misunderstanding and I wanted to clear everything up as much as possible.

It's you who doesn't understand.

I agree, there are things I don't fully understand. I was referring to your comment where you described yourself as 'bad' for not understanding.

I actually don't believe this person is posting in good faith now. It would be strange to keep hammering it in how unevolved they think I am while acknowledging my personal reasons for my feelings otherwise.

It's really PA.

It's you who doesn't understand.

I'm absolutely sincere, I don't think you're in any way a bad person just because you don't understand something and, while how you feel is entirely your business, I wouldn't want to contribute to any internal unpleasantness as the result of miscommunication or a misunderstanding.

Is it supposed to sound smarmy?

Why do you feel the need to pander to narcissism?

Personally, I don't view it as narcissism. Rather, I view it as an attempt to create an identity and, unlike appropriation of existing biological identities, I see it as an attempt at compromise.

I guess I don't. Bad me.

Not understanding something doesn't inherently make you a bad person. As I said, I won't direct you or anyone else how to feel but I sincerely wish you didn't feel bad about it.

What do you call a genderfluid person who is whoever they say they are on any given day?
An abusive controlling jerk.

I guess I don't. Bad me.

Please don't lecture me on how you think I should feel.

I would never presume to lecture or even instruct someone on how they should feel, in this case I merely conveyed what I hoped you would understand.

"Alternative pronouns" are if anything worse. Why do you feel the need to pander to narcissism?

It seems we're at something of an impasse. I appreciate your input regarding the use of traditional pronouns but I must again respectfully disagree with your assessment of alternative pronouns. Please do enjoy what remains of the weekend and thank you for a somewhat edifying discussion.

Regarding you being a DV survivor, I'm very sorry that you have had to endure such abuse but I would have hoped that you would understand how important a sense of self and validation of your identity from others is to mental well-being.

Please don't lecture me on how you think I should feel.

Trying to convince women who have experienced domestic abuse that the validation of the perp is something they need to commit to is a bug mistake, Gronky.

Thank you. I don't need any more gaslighting, thanks.

Gronky you contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Damn right it's an "imposition". I am a woman, they aren't. It is not the same. It is controlling behaviour to make me use the language of a harmful belief system I don't subscribe to.

What do you call a genderfluid person who is whoever they say they are on any given day?

Perhaps it would be better to ask them. I now understand that appropriation of purely biological female pronouns is a form of imposition (and I appreciate the provided explanations) but it still seems to me that using alternative pronouns is within the same realm of logic as expecting others to address a biological female by common respectful pronouns as a signifier of validation by others.

My apologies for the cat typing

Please don't apologise. The meaning was clear and we're all fallible.