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Original poster

Does anyone else struggle to be in a mixed sex relationship whilst holding RadFem politics?

80 replies

NewNameForTodaysPost · 12/08/2018 14:11

Just that really. Sorry for NC. Husband and I have discussed this a lot over the last decade particularly. I’m bisexual and sexually happy in this relationship. Husband is generally in the top quartile (!!? 😉) for being a good man who I like and respect. And love, too. But. My politics find it a hard fit being in a relationship with a man. I will be staying, absolutely, but wondered if anyone else feels this difficulty at times? No worries if not.
No background other than I have identified as a radfem for the last twenty years and am active in voluntary work outside my paid job in womens rights activism. Past paid work in women’s sectors e.g. VAW. It’s hard to not see men through shit coloured lenses at times. Sorry if this offends.

OP posts:
umpteennamechanges · 13/08/2018 11:48

I find it helps me in a way....if I wasn't with DH it would be so easy to fall into the 'all men are shits' brigade.

But that lets them off too easily...as though it should be expected that men are somehow less able to be decent human beings.

My DH reminds me that men are perfectly capable of being great and that I'm not wrong to be able to expect that other men are also capable of achieving the same standards of decency and humanity (rather than 'oh well...that's men for you').

BertrandRussell · 13/08/2018 11:36

"The worst instance was when he was watching a documentary about Monty Python and I suddenly realised that ALL the talking heads were male. I kept mentioning it and he got cross."

I recently heard Miriam Margoles talking abut the utter sexist shittiness of the Pyrhons. I felt as if someone had killed my hamster. Sad

Original poster
NewNameForTodaysPost · 13/08/2018 11:29

It’s really tricky isn’t it? Sexuality aside, it doesn’t matter that much that I’m not straight because I really do love this man and choose to be here for as long as it makes sense for us both (16 years so far and no end in sight 👌🏾), it’s just odd to be in a relationship with someone, however supportive, however ‘woke’, than fundamentally is never going to see the world through my lens.

OP posts:
Imsorrylhaventaclue · 13/08/2018 11:19

Ooh thanks for starting this thread OP, it’s something I think about quite a lot. I’m straight, and love my STBDH very much. He’s a feminist ally and very much on board with GC thinking. But sometimes I find the fact that he sees the world through a man’s eyes really, REALLY frustrating - particularly since it hammers home that even the most sympathetic men can never really ‘get it’. And I’ve got to accept this, because fundamentally sexuality isn’t a choice.

Original poster
NewNameForTodaysPost · 13/08/2018 11:09

TransExclusionaryMRA if you equate being expected to acknowledge that all males benefit indirectly from the oppression and abuse of women with ‘being constantly got at’, you’d be very welcome to walk out my door, no need to be afraid.
The ways that men perpetuate inequality either directly or by not calling others out for it is far wider than only ‘catcalling or rape’, and I expect men to make themselves aware of and accountable for their part in that. If you are male (not sure from that post) and feel that you don’t benefit or unknowingly contribute towards our unequal culture, you are missing part of the picture.

OP posts:
TransExclusionaryMRA · 13/08/2018 10:56

Then I’m sure you and your DH are fine!

Beamur · 13/08/2018 10:53

I don't hold my husband responsible for anyone's actions but his own.
Neither of us are perfect Grin

TransExclusionaryMRA · 13/08/2018 10:48

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being prickly and opinionated, but if I copped abuse from an intimate partner just because of the evils other men committed I’m afraid that wouldn’t be a relationship with much of a future. Sorry.

Furthermore if I wasn’t pulling my weight domestically, and especially re: childcare I wouldn’t expect any woman to put up with that for long either!

I’d be happy to have a radfem friend however, and I have a few offline, but I think most relationships will fail if one partner is feeling constantly got at and made to feel guilty. Again just to be clear if a partner was reading about the latest rape cases and expressed frustration at how easy a crime it is to get away with, chances are I’d agree with them, but if there was the slightest insinuation that I myself could be guilty of harassment, catcalling, or even rape I’m afraid I’d be out the door.

Polynerd · 13/08/2018 10:18

Been with DH 23 years and being radicalise by MN has definitely caused friction in our relationship. He didn't mind the low-key liberal feminism I used to espouse but finds my current views annoying. The worst instance was when he was watching a documentary about Monty Python and I suddenly realised that ALL the talking heads were male. I kept mentioning it and he got cross.

Beamur · 13/08/2018 09:59

I think it is possible, but I think Rad Fem women are much less likely to put up with unequal relationships. I suspect quite a few men would find me too prickly and opinionated.

Original poster
NewNameForTodaysPost · 13/08/2018 07:15

Mine does over 50% of the childcare so I could better progress in my career, does more of the home based child playing, about half housework, all the ironing and heavy chores, about half dishes, 10% bog cleaning, 60% hoovering etc etc. He’s great. It’s not that he isn’t ‘one of the good ones’, just that he’s one of the group that we even refer to equal behaviours as being ‘a good one’. ‘A good one’ for men sounds like doing pretty much the utter minimum any woman typically does. He’s extremely caring, a very good parent, and I love him a lot. I just sometimes feel a recognition that I will never have this one part of myself understood in the way that another radfem might (award that not all radfems hold my beliefs, but at least some would).
At times I read of/hear of aggressions against women that make me feel so angry that I feel I don’t want to even mix with men anymore. Even thought NAMALT and all that, there’s something about the fact that they all still benefit from our oppression.Unless they’re actively and openly agitating for us, they’re part of the problem. Sorry if that feels ‘too rad’ but it’s my beliefs.

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 12/08/2018 23:51

I could not find one worth the sacrifice of my politics so I gave up men 28 years ago and have never regretted it.

ScrambledMeg · 12/08/2018 22:02

So glad I've seen this - it's crystallized some feelings I'm experiencing into proper language!
I'm married to a man but am bisexual. Generally happy but like others here find it does cause an odd kind of political dissonance which I occasionally actually quite often and increasingly so struggle with.

Branleuse · 12/08/2018 21:31

I do think id have been quite happy in a relationship with a woman though. Its easy to just go with men if youre bisexual as theyre so much easier to find. Since ive been more radical ive associated with more lesbians and if i was free and single in the future i cant imagine bothering with men again. Women are more interesting to me on every level, but i still love dp

FloralBunting · 12/08/2018 21:28

Oo, this is a tough one. I've already had to work through all sorts of contrary silliness in my marriage. He does well, and the change in the last five years has been remarkable. But we both still have work to do.

NynaeveSedai · 12/08/2018 21:24

Yeah. I'm pretty much celibate at the moment because I just can't imagine wanting to expend energy on any man I meet, and that's very much influenced by my feminist politics.

ABitCrapper · 12/08/2018 21:22

Good question.
I struggle to discuss feminist issues with DH sometimes as he gets all defensive against his sex and often offer NAMALT. Which I know, obvs, as he is one of the good ones.
But like the poster above I didn't even know I was a feminist, let alone a radfem, until lurking on here!

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 12/08/2018 21:16

PS good job cos he’s got five daughters......

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 12/08/2018 21:15

Oh, this is such a good question! For the record, I didn’t even know I was a RadFem until I started on the FWR boards a couple years ago. Actually I probably wouldn’t have described myself as a Feminist, full stop, til then. But no, I don’t struggle, largely because I inadvertently (at the time, inadvertent at the time Grin) managed to marry a man that seems to hold the same opinions as me. He doesn’t presume he’s a feminist either. He wouldn’t even say he was an ally, these are just his opinions that make sense to him. No matter how much I might try to rant sometimes, he always seems to get it. I should have known because years ago we worked together and he was MD (I was a manager of dept, he was MD because he had twenty years in the industry on me btw) he set up maternity benefits for way over the SMP because he knew he had brilliant female staff and he really wanted them to come back. I even thought I might have gotcha’d him recently when I suggested, after watching yet another news bulletin about a woman being murdered, that I should explain and introduce our teenage DDs to ‘Counting Dead Women’. He agreed it was a good idea. Grr, curses. Nah, he’s a goodun, couldn’t stay married to someone who wasn’t tbh. (Btw, only joking, I don’t really try to catch hm out!)

Theswaggyotter · 12/08/2018 20:03

Yes I totally get where you are coming from OP.
My dh does generally get what I’m saying, definitely more so since dd was born. However he does get fed up with me talking about it / getting stressed about it and has a general ‘this will never happen’ attitude at times - until I point out it has already happened!
However he’s an equal partner in terms of childcare and does more house work than me (despite working full time) so he is certainly one of the better men out there!

Bowlofbabelfish · 12/08/2018 18:31

I think what helps us is accepting as well that we see things through different eyes. He is sympathetic and gets it, but he doesn’t try to see it the same way I do and accepts he has a male upbringing and outlook.

He is also Swedish, and the culture is very different around gender - there’s markedly less toxic masculinity. That is undoubtedly a huge influence on him.

As I’ve said on other threads, if I was unlucky enough to lose him I doubt I’d be in the market for a replacement. I was happily single and destined for cat ladyhood when we met, and to be married and have kids was something I didn’t really expect in life. I am straight and I don’t thinknid have gone down the same sex route younger - however I can see as I age I’d probably prefer platonic female relationships to another man. Some sort of introverted female commune maybe... :)

Not needing men I think has been something that has contributed to my happiness. I know too many women who have stayed too long or entered bad relationships and while I am in no way at all blaming them I can see how it’s been a factor in their unhappiness. To be happy or at least contented alone is to me a key life skill.

Original poster
NewNameForTodaysPost · 12/08/2018 18:04

Mine is certainly a feminist ally in so much as when I explain an issue to him, he’s very quickly on board, and definitely I don’t feel that AMAB, but in the same way that I think all White people have internalised racism (I’m white), I think all men have internalised misogyny. I want to talk LOTS about feminist issues, and whilst he’s reasonably patient and attentive, I can see it doesn’t light his internal fire as it does mine. I have a certain academic sympathy with the theory of political lesbianism and wonder if, life being lived again, I’d have chosen that life to reduce my internal dissonance. I wonder if people in mixed race relationships experience a similar feeling, assuming the races to be ones with different levels of power and privilege. It’s the knowing that he can’t experience it as I do that I find hard, when we’re extremely close in all other important ways. Helpful to hear other folks thoughts.

OP posts:
Doobigetta · 12/08/2018 17:59

My husband is totally on board with my views on the trans debate and on the exploitation of women in the sex industry. He doesn't like me referring to male violence as being the fundamental issue that causes all social problems- gets very defensive and NAMALT, which I can understand. But he's prepared to listen and to accept that women's issues should be defined by women.

Branleuse · 12/08/2018 16:58

Yes definitely. It does help that dp broadly agrees with lot of the radfem stuff but he does find it a bit tedious when i go on about it too much.

Bowlofbabelfish · 12/08/2018 16:55

Dh is from a country which doesn’t have such strict gender stereotyping and I think that helps enormously. A lot of the things I get angry about aren’t really issues where he is from (and he thinks the Uk is a pit of barbarism but that’s a whole other thread.)

He is also an equal parent and an equal partner. That really helps. As far as a man can get it, he gets it.

I’m aware I’m lucky.