NHS faces lawsuit for not funding fertility services for transgenders who want kids

Interesting article laying out current 'patchy' offer for fertility preservation for cancer patients. Also note the requirement for the patient's own consent, regardless of age.

www.bionews.org.uk/page_137830

My understanding is that the challenge was for parity with the best practice protocols for those diagnosed with cancer,

There's quite a lot of discussion about this on the thread from last week.

There is a significant postcode lottery for referral to fertility clinics when people are diagnosed with cancer also significant disparities between the sexes.
DR CHERYL FITZGERALD, CONSULTANT IN REPRODUCTIVE MEDICINE AT ST MARY’S, SAID: ‘THERE IS A HUGE INEQUITY. MEN HAVING FERTILITY-DAMAGING TREATMENT ARE AUTOMATICALLY REFERRED TO SPERM BANKING.
‘FOR WOMEN, BECAUSE EGG FREEZING USED TO BE LESS SUCCESSFUL AND BECAUSE IT’S A MORE INVASIVE AND TIME-CONSUMING PROCESS, IT’S NOT AUTOMATIC.
‘THE EMPHASIS HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN ON CURING CANCER, BUT WITH SO MANY PEOPLE SURVIVING CANCER, WE NEED TO LOOK AT IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE AFTER TREATMENT, INCLUDING THE CHANCE TO HAVE A FAMILY.’ ” cancerandfertility.co.uk/about/

What is clear though is that of all of the patient-led lobby groups seeking parity or improved medical treatments, the transgender lobby stands head and shoulders above all others in terms of effectiveness

I think that if it is proven to a reasonable degree that medical interventions for "sex change" are indeed life-saving and necessary, then trans people who undergo this should absolutely be helped with any subsequent fertility issues.

However, as far as I am aware science does not currently support this. Also, as others have said, transgender patients (and their parents where applicable) need to be made very aware of things like fertility issues before undergoing any form of treatment that is likely to have this impact.

I didn't realise they were seeking more than others get. I suppose you can't blame them for trying. But I agree it would be wrong if they succeed. I was thinking about it from the principal of non-judgemental equal provision of services. I have a major issue with the creeping concept within the NHS that people who are perceived to have contributed to their condition are somehow less worthy of treatment than others.

But if they do, they should offer the same fertility treatment they offer others

The equivilence that the transgender lobby is seeking is with people diagnosed with cancer, furthermore, they are seeking equilence with the theoretical best practise protocol. Which is rarely applied.

What about other others?

MimpiDreams playing forwards, would this include IVF for surragacy if a female's eggs were frozen and then as a consequence of cross sex hormones / medical advice / personal decision they had a hysterectomy?

Is that offered to non trans people who need it? I'll be honest, I don't think the NHS should be butchering healthy people and leaving them infertile in the first place. But if they do, they should offer the same fertility treatment they offer others. I gather that in many areas that means they'll be offered very little.

This will just result in the withdrawal of fertility services for all.

Win win for those with womb envy.

This will just result in the withdrawal of fertility services for all.

CAN'T ... ffs

No this is ridiculous. As a woman denied ivf..I can express how wrong this is. Your choice to transition.. your responsibility to deal with the consequences...

Cluster B people cause a lot of problems and suck up so many resources.

"We demand" a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder!

A young girl or woman can have their ovarian tissue frozen and then re implanted.

Regarding young men who have both testicles removed during cancer surgery the problem is a little more complex depending on the nature of the cancer.

More often a fertility conserving surgery is made with strict follow ups throughout puberty.

Please be aware that this is the reality of fertility treatment for those diagnosed with cancer:

Campaign of awareness not litigation launched last year by Becki McGuiness 'Cancer & Fertility UK':

"Thankfully I have now been in remission for 8 years but have to live with life long side effects. Early menopause is a hard one to deal with especially as the Gynecologist I had to see for HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) said they could have helped me, if only I had been originally sent to see her.

If only the hospital had a holistic approach for cancer patients.

I am officially launching a campaign for the awareness on #Cancer and #Fertility for all cancer patients called “The Vicious Cycle Campaign” and I’m also using the hashtag 💔 #HiddenHeartache 💔 because it’s something painful that’s hidden in society especially if you’re young and infertile. I want to raise awareness so women know the options available (as it takes longer to save women’s eggs and men usually get their fertility preserved, as it’s quicker) and asking to see a fertility specialist. I would prefer if all oncologists brought up the subject with every patient because for some patients it’s so traumatic finding out they have cancer that they might not even be thinking clearly enough or may forget to even ask about fertility and that’s why I believe they shouldn’t be putting this pressure on the patient to ask because they have so much to worry about already

This is something I am really passionate about. I know it can vary throughout the UK for different women and I want my campaign to make sure there’s equal opportunities for all women and men regardless who their doctor is or area they live in.

I want the protocol to be the same for everyone in the UK rather than being hit and miss for patients or a postcode lottery."

(caps are from website sorry)
^"A STUDY BY ST MARY’S HOSPITAL IN MANCHESTER SAYS AROUND HALF OF FEMALE CANCER PATIENTS AGED 15 TO 39 — ROUGHLY 4,000 A YEAR — ARE INFERTILE AFTER THEIR TREATMENT.
RESEARCHERS ESTIMATE THAT AROUND HALF WOULD VOLUNTARILY CHOOSE NOT TO USE FERTILITY PRESERVATION AND HALF WOULD WANT IT.

FREEZING EGGS, OVARIAN TISSUE OR AN EMBRYO CREATED WITH A PARTNER’S SPERM ACTS AS AN INSURANCE POLICY WHICH MAY GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO START A FAMILY LATER USING IVF.
BUT IN 2014 ONLY 154 WOMEN HAD THEIR EGGS FROZEN — LESS THAN 4 PER CENT OF THE 4,000 WHO WERE LEFT INFERTILE.
AND A FURTHER SURVEY FOUND THAT ONLY A THIRD OF THE WOMEN WHO DID HAVE TREATMENT GOT IT ON THE NHS.
THE REST ARE LIKELY TO HAVE PAID THOUSANDS OF POUNDS PRIVATELY FOR THE CHANCE TO BE A MOTHER.
STUDY AUTHOR DR YAZAN ABDALLAH OF THE DEPARTMENT OF REPRODUCTIVE MEDICINE AT ST MARY’S SAID: ‘GETTING CANCER IS A MISFORTUNE, NOT A CHOICE, AND SO FERTILITY PRESERVATION MUST BE AVAILABLE ON THE NHS. THERE IS A BIG OPPORTUNITY TO INFORM AND EMPOWER WOMEN — NOT ASK THEM TO PAY...^ continues

cancerandfertility.co.uk/about/

stillathing lol yes quite

Lot of what I've read, seems that there is a lack of awareness that many women have body hair & facial hair that they pay through the nose to remove from a very young age

It’s worth mentioning here that groups like mermaids are pushing for very early treatment for children with puberty blockers. Essentially before puberty kicks in.

If a child is placed on these blockers pre puberty or before a certain stage of puberty there will be no mature sperm or ova to save and bank.

It’s also worth saying that right now the access to fertility service for people with cancer is patchy and effectively a postcode lottery.

Action for Trans Health demand a lot!

I find it distasteful that this funding of fertility services on the NHS for those who wish to undergo transition is conflated to young girls, women or young boys, men undergoing distressing cancer treatment of their sexual reproductive organs.

Yet on the other hand Action for Trans Health suggest that no trans person needs to undergo surgery but be treated as the gender they want to be seen as within the NHS.

It's about time the reality of cancer treatment for young people, some very young, be separated from trans health.

Trans health is a serious issue. Trans women keep their prostate and most often now keep their testicles and penis.

Increasingly trans health has to focus on dementia and Alzheimer's patients as they are confused about being referred to as the gender they adopted and are distressed about the body they now have.

Local anaesthetic during waxing! Are they not aware that waxing body hair is pampering and women bloody love it?

More

"We demand the revocation of medical licenses from all gender clinic doctors & nurses, past and present.
We demand the power to hold abusers of medical & administrative power accountable for historical & present injustices.

We demand medical training to enable us to safely carry out medical procedures & research for each other, for anyone of us who wants to learn. We will enhance our collective knowledge, so that the means to understand our bodies is universally accessible. We demand to improve the quality of medications we take and procedures we undergo, to reduce negative side-effects in the long term, and to highlight our own experience and understanding of their effects on our bodies.

We demand research centres & libraries of knowledge, autonomously & horizontally organised by and for trans people, in which research subjects are equal participants in deciding the experiments conducted & the manner in which those experiments are carried out.

We demand full funding for any research or projects undertaken by these collectives."

then you get stuff like the action for trans health manifesto:

"We demand an end to all surgical prerequisites – nobody should have to prove life experience,health or have to be taking hormones in order to exercise bodily autonomy. We demand that these surgeries can be highly customised to meet our individual & unique needs.

We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired, so that we do not have to fear regret.

We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them.

We demand resources for hair removal anywhere on our bodies, and the option of local anesthetic during these procedures. We demand voice coaching that does not coerce us to alter our voices in ways we do not express a need for, but respects our accents and our right to express ourselves however we desire.

We demand access to counselling & and any other therapies we choose."

I have seen this compared to actions taken around fertility for those who need certain cancer treatments on the NHS.

However on that thread a quick google revealed that not all areas do provide fertility stuff (sperm storage etc) for people who are treated for cancer.

I don;t think that trans people should get better treatment in this instance than those who have cancer.

I do think that the side effects should be made extremely clear to those seeking hormonal / surgical changes due to sex dysphoria (I don't think people without dysphoria seek these types of treatments?).

It does raise questions around the push for younger and younger treamtment eg many pushing for reduction to 16 for sugical reassignment. At 16 most people are pretty shit at thinking about long term consequences and knowing whether they want kids or not. Even at 18.

I mean you can't get a tattoo till your 18 right?

Anyway.

The NHS is cash strapped. Fertility treatments are a highly contention topic with very strong arguments on both sides and it's one of those where I think most people can see both sides.

Bottom line is, is this a choice surgery or not? Surely the "saving lives" thing goes to >> mental illness which current activism says trans is not, even with dysphoria.

I think that these sort of ideas will be things that the general public will feel less comfy with - when it comes to their tax £££ being spent while other with cancer are not getting teh same level of care etc.

If a "woman" is no longer entitled to free IVF treatment on the NHS, why should a "man" be entitled to save their eggs (as a female) and then get free IVF on the NHS as a man. You can't have it both, or indeed, all, ways. It just makes no sense that if you want to be a "man" so desperately that you are willing to change your biology by taking all sorts of drugs in order to achieve that aim but are not then willing to accept that being a man, means you can't have children. You have a choice, you make it, and you get it for free on the NHS, but you shouldn't then be able to exempt one of the consequences of that decision. You can by all means, pay for it yourself, but it shouldn't be offered on the NHS.

MimpiDreams playing forwards, would this include IVF for surragacy if a female's eggs were frozen and then as a consequence of cross sex hormones / medical advice / personal decision they had a hysterectomy?

I agree with transgender people on this one. If the NHS is giving them treatment for their condition which makes them infertile then they should provide fertility services before hand to those that want/need it.