Janice Turner in the Times "Frenzy about the burka is no help to women"

But number two is that when the veil is worn in (say) the UK it changes the way that gender, sex, women and girls are viewed - we live amongst the veil - why should we not comment?

I am a white, UK born atheist. I have every right to comment on this. I support a ban.

I also think female children wearing hijab is absolutely awful. I'm not keen on adult women wearing it either to be honest for the signals of the need for modesty it gives out.

Excellent article Igneococcus.
I,too, am dismayed at the number of small girls,some pre school,wearing hijabs. Their brothers aren't similarly restricted.

JTs guesstimate of 1000 niqab/burqa wearers seems way off the mark judging by what I observe on a daily basis. Besides,the numbers are certainly growing.
It's a misguided sign of separation and division. Not something we should be encouraging in British society.

I usually like Janice, but am uncomfortable with all the articles by non-Muslim British people on this topic. I grew up in the ME and a large number of my friends covered growing up, just as half of my Arab family cover now. It is, for the majority, a choice and not a burden; those who wished to drop it have done so

I utterly understand where you are coming from, but I have two 'buts'.

But number one is that I personally know women in some Islamic countries who are forced to wear the veil. If they don't, they are subject to heckling, spitting and threats of sexual abuse.

But number two is that when the veil is worn in (say) the UK it changes the way that gender, sex, women and girls are viewed - we live amongst the veil - why should we not comment?

If the burka is, as she says, just a piece of clothing, this is how it should be regarded. Not as a sacred covering which must never be removed, lest it violates the wearer’s faith, but as a garment which, like shorts, is suitable in some circumstances and not others

But it isn't just a piece of clothing.

It was in yesterday's edition Cwen

This is today by another Times journalist with Kashmiri grandparents:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-niqab-row-the-veil-enslaves-and-it-isnt-racist-to-say-so-0fzkkdfvw?shareToken=569ed8b922abc3cdbccca8bae916e0b5

Racists are simply using the burka/niqab as another tool in their racism. That it's aimed entirely at women is no coincidence, given that racists tend to be violently misogynist also.

I wish women worldwide didn't feel the need or compulsion to cover themselves in this way. But 'bans' are simply a bad idea.

Stark/lefty how did you find the article in the first place? It’s not coming up when I scroll through either the app or the mobile site, logged in as a subscriber.

Thanks for raising the article, as usual well written by JT. Despite having a subscription (because I’m a fan of her writing) this hadn’t popped up when I browsed earlier.

She raises some interesting and difficult points. The issue isn’t as clear cut as women being oppressed by cultural practice vs freedom of expression/choice is it.

Are there really only around 1,000 UK women who wear niqab? Maybe it’s living in London but that feels like a low estimate to me. I know that’s beside the point.

I usually like Janice, but am uncomfortable with all the articles by non-Muslim British people on this topic. I grew up in the ME and a large number of my friends covered growing up, just as half of my Arab family cover now. It is, for the majority, a choice and not a burden; those who wished to drop it have done so.

Leaving aside the 'everyone has chosen their bunker' argument (which I think is possibly true), I believe that the women who have worn the veil/niqab for a long time have simply got used to it and would feel just as exposed and uncomfortable without it as I would if ordered to go out in a bra and pants alone.

Introducing a law where pressure to cover is a criminal offence: definitely a good idea. Bit otherwise: please just let women BE.

It's an excellent article, thanks for drawing attention to it.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/frenzy-about-the-burka-is-no-help-to-women-9vvl725z6?shareToken=8e3326742df215642756b521b9be2ddd

Here you go