Graham Linehan interview

chambeni there are definitely plenty of gay men out there that see the problems, I think perhaps there's not really a good place for discussion of the details, though? You could try r/gendercritical, there are loads of "peak trans" stories there.

Great podcast - I think Graham sounds nearly as frustrated as Germaine Greer!

"Well I think a big part of the problem is that it just doesn't affect men in the same way."

That's the problem women and girls have, it's not taken seriously because it doesn't touch men.

It's a while since I listen to the podcast, so I hope I remember this correctly, but when Graham talked about male people in women's sport, the presenter said it works both ways - there will be transmen in male sports. Does he really believe that it will be just as easy for TM to join male teams as TW entering female teams?

I think it's a mixture of not really understanding what trans is, and not really giving a fuck about what happens to women and girls.

You might want to point out to your friends that a large proportion of children who question gender either end up fine with it or just turn out to be gay. Affirmative treatment and routing down the medical path basically tells those children they are not OK to be gay, they must be straight and in the wrong body.

I find that seriously worrying - it’s gay conversion therapy and it’s wrong to tell children that they can change sex. They are just perfectly normal children who may turn out to be gay in future. It’s erasing homosexuality.

And yes I agree with you that it’s not affecting men yet.

Men actually want their own spaces as much as women do. The difference is that they don't have to constantly defend them, or justify them. They're just left alone to get on with it. Just as an example, there are quite a few barbers that refuse to cut women's hair (and some refuse women on the premisis). They're not constantly hounded and threatened on social media or called bigots because 'transmen are men'.

Although Hampstead ponds did show men are quite unhappy when female men invade their spaces

Well I think a big part of the problem is that it just doesn't affect men in the same way.

For me, it was primarily a concern over how GNC children are being guided towards medicalisation too early but that doesn't seem to have much traction with my other friends like it did with me.

I think a lot of men will just look at GLs tweets and think "why do you care?"

I’ve often thought chambeni that until this affects men then no headway will be made.

What aspects of this do you think could or would affect men? What’s it going to take to get men to realise what’s happening?

Chambeni, perhaps get your friends to think about Iran, where gender surgery is literally gay conversion therapy (state and religion approved) and let them join the dots themselves.

As a (gay) man I have found that whenever I try and highlight any of the GC concerns with my male friends I quickly realise most just don't understand WHY there is a need for female only spaces. I believe this is just ignorance rather than a wilful misunderstanding of the situation though.

There is often talk here about the competition to be as "woke" as possible. While I think this can be the case, perhaps amongst those who are prone to shouting about things online, amongst my friends I think it's more subtle in that we have just been conditioned to see all social causes of those discriminated against as something we should support. Suggesting that some of the demands need questioning before being granted, in their eyes, positions me as a transphobic bigot almost by default. Mentioning the affirmation model regarding children, and how it could be viewed as gay elimination therapy is usually the topic that gets me called crazy!

When talking with my male friends I now just try and raise points quietly and without seeming like I've researched anything. People generally agree with the arguments but often cannot follow the arguments to their logical conclusions, or don't have enough awareness of what TRA's campaign for or who they are to even realise there is a problem in the first place.

For example, I have found that highlighting the mess around people like Jess NUS is a way of showing my male friends that not all trans people are equal or motivated by the same forces when it comes to transitioning. While we can never be sure, I'm pretty confident Jess would have signed up for self ID and this would have been incredibly problematic and it's easy to show why. My position is that we definitely do need gatekeeping but that this gatekeeping could be made a little bit easier. Highlighting the differences between Jess and "genuine" trans is an argument that doesn't seem so bigoted.

Yes, Graham is doing a lot of work, but it's going to take a lot of conversations with all our male friends to clarify why more critical thought needs applied!

Bookmarking for later when I have time.

We need more like you Graham ... can I clone you?

He so does Bore

A rare man indeed...

Bookmarking for a more sensible hour!

"Vulnerable women need spaces of their own"

"Huge ramifications for women's sport..." "It's women who have to make allowances for other people."

"Every kid goes through a stage where their body - or the role that's been assigned to them - is wrong." "Every pore is open at a certain age."

"In Huntley is a man. A man killed those girls."

"This issue, this is ridiculous. I'm not going to pretend this isn't happening."

I love Graham Linehan. I wish him recovery.

Thanks for sharing. I’ll be listening to this on my long drive tomorrow.