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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why is he crying? Laura Huteson death

284 replies

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 10/08/2018 15:39

Laura Huteson death: Hull man killed woman in 'bizarre' sex game www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-45140580

How often hetersexual men die during “risky” sex games because I can’t think of one case from the news? I know that sadly happens in same sex couples/ participants (can think of a couple examples from the news) but in hetero? It seems it tends to be women who love being throttled, punched, tied up, brutalised.

What does it mean he did not intend that to happen. What did he think would happen.

OP posts:
ChattyLion · 11/08/2018 12:20

Given all this, I think it's clear that either sex games gone wrong needs to go as a defence or sex games gone wrong needs to be specifically delineated as an aggravating factor in sentencing.

YY Lang ^^^

Squirrel, woman, Justice, Seafret yes- let’s make this all these actions a tribute to the dead women who can’t speak.

It feels like the sentencing is all based around male entitlement to sex, sexual pleasure and orgasm. That is intolerable. And means female victims can never get justice.

I mean (sorry for the horrible detail but) apparently from the press reports the perpetrator claimed that he didn’t notice that he’d knifed her in the neck until her body jerked.

Why THE FUCK is that any defence?
Why would not noticing make him LESS culpable and responsible for his use of a knife held at her throat? That claimed lack of attention and (or certainly admitted lack of care - who knows what his actual motives were and if they were even that ‘benign’) surely should make him MORE culpable as PP have said?

But you know, what kind of woman-hating courtroom is it, if in the first place it is plausible to claim, that an omission is what caused her death?

What reasonable (if allegedly distracted) actions did the judge think were happening- while this girl had a knife pressed hard to her throat whilst she was being fucked? Where was the care for her? How was the man ensuring her actively consenting pleasure after they had both had coke and vodka?

Why are judges accepting perpetrators’ claims of the primacy of their male sexual pleasure, or male orgasm, in these cases? Above preserving and not threatening women’s lives?

How is it plausible to judges (and how, legally, any mitigation) that men who are ‘having sex with’ Hmm someone else then go off into some kind of alternative reality.. so powerful as to provide an alibi when this (claimed) altered state of responsibility and attention results in his ‘partner’s’ DEATH?

Male sexual pleasure and orgasm is clearly a place very very far apart from women’s permitted experience of sex with another person?

Only Man enters this sacred uninterruptable fuck-trance that renders him incapable of normal adult responsibility. He is lost in his magic male space, incapable of thought or reason, care for the partner, concern for her consent, bodily pleasure or his threats to her life, totally unaware of his surroundings, blind to what he can see, deaf to her sounds, insensate to what he can feel (outside of what is going on with his magically mesmerising penis of course). Including the feel of the responses of the woman whose body he is repeatedly pushing his dick into...

Which I’m going to go out on a limb and assume he is doing forcefully*’ AND BY THEN OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, HE IS UNDERSTANDABLY TOTALLY PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY INCAPABLE OF STOPPING until his pleasure is concluded to his own satisfaction?

*taking cocaine results in a longer time and less easy achievement to get to orgasm. The news reports say they had had cocaine and vodka.
melmagazine.com/what-sex-is-like-on-every-popular-drug-9d17138585a3

This courtroom account of male sexual pleasure as ‘gateway to an unreachable world’ is narcissistic, solipsistic, misogynistic bullshit. It literally lets men get away with murder.

Why should men have the alibi of their own untouchable primacy of sexual pleasure while they are fucking another person? (an alibi I have never heard of granted to a woman).

What about men’s responsibility to know what is going on with the woman, her consent, safety, pleasure, or whether in fact she is fighting for her life?

How does the judge resolve the cognitive dissonance that at the same time as this man is in his unknowing, unreachable (yet strangely very, very, physically exerting Hmm) state of pleasure.. that the man is also conscious enough to be with some physical effort applying the correct side of the knife edge in the right place and so very hard to this woman’s throat, that she DIED, in an incredibly brutal way?!

HOW THE FUCK IS ‘I DIDN'T NOTICE’ EVEN REMOTELY PLAUSIBLE IN COURT?!!

It’s utterly horrendous to think about this poor young girl and her bereaved small child and her family and partner.

This scenario must no longer be treated as a one-off, a bizarre ‘sex-game-gone-wrong’.

Sexual violence becoming a much much bigger problem which may well affect our children, families and partners, us.

Women’s and young people’s groups need to make as much noise as possible about these cases.

Judges need to understand that (what they might think are) ‘bizarre sex games’ are increasingly ‘normal’ aspects of ‘standard’ porn and frighteningly easily accessible. Porn is in a constant race to the bottom in producing more and more extreme content.

Viewers (of all ages) become desensitised to sexual violence in porn, which becomes a normal part of IRL fantasy and sex, girls get coerced into this or just accept it as ‘what sex is like’. There WILL be further widespread psychological harm, more deaths and permanent injuries for the ‘lucky’ ones who aren’t killed.

We need much harsher sentences for perpetrators. Young people must be educated routinely at school very, very frankly about the abusive and abnormal misogynistic shit that they are exposed to via what is called ‘porn’ today, its effects on them and its dangers, plus all the usual basic messages about the fundamental need for active consent.

womanspeaking · 11/08/2018 11:20

The sentencing message seems to be:
Once you've achieved your sexual high in killing a woman by slitting her throat, just act shocked, cry a bit when calling the police and you'll be rewarded with a minimum sentence. You'll also be seen as 'no threat to the public' as women evidently aren't seen as 'the public'.
I'd call a man that sleeps with a knife under his pillow in the hope of using it on a random sexual partner a massive threat - red flags waving everywhere!

Utterly awful. Off to use that link to complain.

CountFosco · 11/08/2018 11:09

sex games gone wrong needs to be specifically delineated as an aggravating factor in sentencing

Maybe include something like this Justice

CountFosco · 11/08/2018 11:07

Wewantjustice I'd reword 'they claimed', 'their unlikely tales', and 'most women'. My preference would be for less emotive language and an emphasis on it being impossible to consent to being murdered. And maybe something about the level of violence required to kill someone not being accidental.

seafret · 11/08/2018 10:14

Just to sickened by this too. And thank god you women still have the energy to fight for us all.

How is that violent sex against (not with) women is seen as harmless and indicative of nothing at all bad. I'm so eternally sick of perverts and the rest trying to normalise fucked-upness.

LangCleg · 11/08/2018 09:54

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/jason-gaskell-handed-six-year-1885607

Ok. More detail (and some quite good reporting that puts the bloody BBC to shame, again) here.

  • He was prosecuted under the gross negligence category of manslaughter.

He pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity so the sentence would have been nine years had he pleaded not guilty and been convicted. One stab wound which the court heard used "mild to moderate" force (Bowl* might like to take issue with that). Phoned 999 immediately in state of high distress.

  • No murder charge most likely because proving intent would have been too difficult.

  • Gross negligence offences are already pasted to get longer sentences but the new rules haven't come in yet.

Given all this, I think it's clear that either sex games gone wrong needs to go as a defence or sex games gone wrong needs to be specifically delineated as an aggravating factor in sentencing.

LaSquirrel · 11/08/2018 09:32

Chatty and woman - yes appealing these appalling sentences, very good idea.

LaSquirrel · 11/08/2018 09:30

Autoerotic asphyxiation is something males generally do to themselves. Not just Michael Hutchence, but David Carradine, and I am sure many others, including the not-famous.

It shows their disregard for life, when willing to risk it for The Ultimate Orgasm.

That they PROJECT this onto women, or kill women to do it, makes them worthless human beings.

womanspeaking · 11/08/2018 09:20

Just for anyone who missed it earlier in the thread: any member of the public can appeal against a low sentence here:

www.gov.uk/ask-crown-court-sentence-review

LaSquirrel · 11/08/2018 09:17

I like your amended version WeWantJustice

LaSquirrel · 11/08/2018 09:16

Dead women can't speak
Worth repeating.

Similar smears against the murder victim in Jane Longhurst's murder. Coutts claimed the same, that it was a 'consensual' 'sex game' 'gone wrong'. What got him the big sentence, he put her body into a storage unit and revisited (probably raped) her body several times after. Raping a corpse, zero consent. Longhurst was the friend of his girlfriend, there was no indication of any consent, even to 'sex'. Rather, I suspect he lured her there saying her friend was there, then raped and murdered her. He will likely get out in about 2033, despite the appeal.

It takes usually a while to strangle someone (most usually, 2-3 minutes, however, it can occasionally be achieved in less). Both the carotid artery and windpipe have to be compressed during that time. Generally, it is a lot of time required, and plenty of time to back out before death.

Taking on board Bowl's comments about the degree of force to slash the throat of human or animal. I am disturbed that Ms Huteson's murder was generally described as a neck stabbing, when the BBC report: "severed 21-year-old Laura Huteson's jugular vein and carotid artery with a knife while having sex". Severed is generally not a stabbing, more a sweeping slicing action, but sure, could be REPEATED stabbings to achieve that result. If a 'stabbing', again, plenty of time (past one) to back out of murder.

Either way, meeting someone that day, and just happening across some shared interests in dangerous 'sex games', is a long shot. Both porn and BDSM have a lot to answer for in these ritual misogynist killings of young women for male pleasure. His crocodile tears of "loved her" - seriously? Day 1, or even less than Day 1? Don't take us for fools.

I gather the drawcard in all of this, is a 'promised' (to men) uber orgasm as the woman dies with him inside her. Plus power trip of course, taking someone else's life.

The six year sentence in this case is a bloody joke.

WeWantJustice · 11/08/2018 08:12

OK here's amended:

There have been several cases in the news of men being found not guilty of murder, when they killed women during sex. They claimed the dead women had consented to life-threatening acts even though they had only just met and that the deaths were accidental. The men's unlikely tales were believed.

Most women do not want to be strangled, tortured or cut with knives at any time, whether they are having sex or not. The presumption should be that the duty of care we all have to each other in every other situation in life, does not suddenly disappear in sexual situations and that if you cause the death of another person, either in or out of bed, you should not be able to use the defence that that person consented to the risk that you would kill them. Stop men getting away with murder.

Farahilda · 11/08/2018 07:51

"So if someone asks me to punch them, I oblige, they die, then I’m not responsible"

Punching, quite possibly so. BecUse it all comes down to intent, and thereis a level of (what could otherwise be assault) one is 'allowed' to consent to. But if I all ended up in court, then it would be a a casei of whether the person had a reasonable belief that the action was wanted. So for example, a couple who had met on a BDSM site should be able to have the sex of their choice without fear of prosecution.

There is however a level of harm to which no one is permitted to consent. The infamous case of this was in Germany (Armin Meiwes, the Rotenberg cannibal) - where consent was known to be given, because of the actions both and videos of the events.

Strangling deaths do occur from time to time.

Sex with props is terribly common. But with a knife?
Has anyone read the full sentencing embarks from he judge? They ought to show quite clearly what the court heard.

What does it mean he did not intend that to happen. What did he think would happen"

That would be found in sentencing remarks. The press report is that there was no suggestion that the violent sex as not consensual. That's quite a strong statement, and presumably evidenced (eg witnesses, calls/social media use at germane times, conduct around the time of the incident, and in this case I guess evidence of the nature of the relationship - including anything about the sexual aspect that either of them had discussed with third parties)

The role of intent is important in murder, and part of he definition in English law. There has been huge consideration of how far one is allowed not to intend the obvious outcomes of actions (if you want a good but dated literary version, try 'Thrones, Dominations' by Dorothy L Sayers, where it's an element in the plot)

From that press report, I cannot see why he was not tried for murder. Nor why the sentence was so low (manslaughter sentences can be considerably higher). A full version of the remarks might be illuminating.

Bowlofbabelfish · 11/08/2018 06:44

wewant

Some sort of line in there about the actions of one person causing the death of another ?

Need to distinguish from cases where someone has had a cardiovascular event for example during sex (which isn’t too uncommon) and died of that.

But yes, I agree with you - violent action causing death during sex should be prosecuted fully. Would the Spanner case be useful here? That seemed to imply that one cannot consent to damaging acts?

(Not a lawyer! So not the best person to advise...)

Ereshkigal · 11/08/2018 01:51

This is seriously concerning. Violence against women (it's always against women) has become mainstream - where a court accepts that A WOMAN STABBED IN THE NECK somehow CONSENTED ?! WTAF. What the fuck is going on.

It's similar to the court who decided that a man who stabbed a woman in the back was acting in "self defence".

Ereshkigal · 11/08/2018 01:30

He slit her throat. And it's being written off as a "bizarre sex game gone wrong".

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 11/08/2018 00:33

In domestic violence situations, non-fatal strangulation is a huge risk factor for eventually being murdered. If someone attempts to strangle you, they're 7 times more likely to kill you eventually than if they chose another method.

LagerthaTheShieldMaiden · 11/08/2018 00:17

I very often wish I'd never seen it. It must be nice to pootle along and see nothing. I do miss it! Once the blinkers are off they're really OFF. You can't see anything the same anymore. I'm glad, but I do think being a handmaiden must be easier!

WellThisIsShit · 10/08/2018 23:52

God it’s horrific. The crime and the punishment.

Every so often you can’t ignore how little you matter. What a piece of trash you really are to the only other members of society who really count. It’s sobering and yes, horrific.

It has just occurred to me that maybe this is why so many women deny the need for feminism... maybe it’s just too damn painful to face what we are in men’s eyes.

hipsterfun · 10/08/2018 23:31

In a system that won’t allow peaceful assisted dying for informed, consenting people who are terminally ill, this outcome is inconsistent, to say the least.

WeWantJustice · 10/08/2018 23:22

Yes off to bed now, morning is fine, I'm too angry to be coherent at the moment.

Fucking men looks like a hazardous activity nowadays.

LagerthaTheShieldMaiden · 10/08/2018 23:21

Thank you LangCleg. It's a million (20 plus) years ago, and has no relevance to my life now, until I remember.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 10/08/2018 23:12

I’d gave to read it properly in the morning wewamtjustice.

I think ending up dead is the epitome of lack of consent - not assuming since someone is dead they lust have consented to whatever.

OP posts:
Datun · 10/08/2018 23:09

LangCleg

The comments under that article! Wanting to bring back the crime of scolding. And almost, to a man, concentrating on bringing a halt to physical abuse being a legal defence for women who kill their abuser. Disagreeing with it.

Just enormous high dudgeon over that. And hardly any comments about the nagging and shagging repeal.

WeWantJustice · 10/08/2018 23:06

Right, I think we need a petition about this issue, there have been too many men getting away with murdering women and claiming it was an accident.

Here's the wording of a petition, any suggestions for improvement?

Title: Abolish the defence of accident and consent, for killing someone during sex

There have been several cases recently in the news, where men have been found not guilty of murder, when they killed women during sex. They claimed the dead women had consented to acts of strangling, torture etc., even though they had only just met. The women were dead, so could not contradict these men.

More details
Most women do not want to be strangled, tortured or cut with knives at any time, whether they are having sex or not. The presumption should be that if someone is dead, they did not consent to the action which caused their death and that the person who killed them, carried out these acts without their consent and in fact, murdered them. In every other situation, there is a duty of care to someone else and there should be no exception for sex and no getting away with murder.

There is quite a strict word limit on what can be written so that's what I've done so far.

Any improvements?

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