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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why is he crying? Laura Huteson death

284 replies

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 10/08/2018 15:39

Laura Huteson death: Hull man killed woman in 'bizarre' sex game www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-45140580

How often hetersexual men die during “risky” sex games because I can’t think of one case from the news? I know that sadly happens in same sex couples/ participants (can think of a couple examples from the news) but in hetero? It seems it tends to be women who love being throttled, punched, tied up, brutalised.

What does it mean he did not intend that to happen. What did he think would happen.

OP posts:
ScienceIsTruth · 13/08/2018 00:11

I've emailed them to ask that the sentence be reconsidered.

DuckingGoodPJs · 12/08/2018 23:47

Women are not responsible for stopping men from KILLING THEM. Nobody can legally consent to another person killing them.

Great post, even twice, Chatty.

LangCleg · 12/08/2018 21:05

Centre for Women's Justice?

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 20:54

I will try to put down some bullet points but I find it very very hard not to just sound off about this fucking travesty.

I think Justice’s petition wording covers the main points really well and concisely.

It may also be worth us thinking about any different actions that we might want the different organisations we’ve identified to take.

There may be some other groups to alert to this that we haven’t mentioned yet like criminal justice charities etc so I could google around for some of those.

I feel like the more organisations that are getting the same message hopefully some kind of critical mass might form for looking at these cases differently.

Hopefully any lawyers on here with specific technical legal points that we should mention to advocate for change will post those on the thread too.

Is anyone in touch with journalists who write comment pieces? The case is still recent enough for think piece about how a man can kill a woman, claim ‘I don’t recall that she told me to stop’ then only get six years in prison. And be described by the judge as ‘not dangerous to the public’. Sad

FuckingHateRain · 12/08/2018 15:51

TheGoddessFrigg agreed, all imposed on female only!

placemats · 12/08/2018 15:49

Sorry that should be in favour of the practice of choking

placemats · 12/08/2018 15:43

This choking thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3248843-When-men-choke-a-female-partner-there-is-a-very-high-risk-they-will-eventually-kill-them

Some of the comments below the OP are shocking. Strangely, not one of them in favour has come onto this thread to comment.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 12/08/2018 15:35

Only Man enters this sacred uninterruptable fuck-trance that renders him incapable of normal adult responsibility.

If i say 'ow' dh stops

I mean i think he is a special man...but he's not that fucking special

Flowers for Laura

SirVixofVixHall · 12/08/2018 15:19

Agree TheGoddessFrigg

SirVixofVixHall · 12/08/2018 15:13

Agree Lang, chatty.

hipsterfun · 12/08/2018 14:33

Dunno, I’m not into BDSM myself but my sense is that there are plenty of well balanced people into it as well as abusive types using it as cover.

If BDSM disappeared tomorrow, there’d still be the same number of abusive, misogynist men, they’d simply find another outlet. That said, I think BDSM probably blurs the lines a way that makes women vulnerable.

TheGoddessFrigg · 12/08/2018 14:21

I have to say - that Choking thread in Chat and now this case have made me about as vanilla as it's possible to be. I can't believe that BDSM is anything but hatred of women dressed up as something 'edgy'.

hipsterfun · 12/08/2018 14:13

Agree. Chatty, can you compose a letter and send it far and wide? What you’ve written over a few posts is brilliant.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 12/08/2018 13:06

Chatty i don't think your excellent post can be reposted too many times, ideally to mps and national newspapers. Basically this sentence is sending out the message that you can kill a woman, claim sex gone wrong and only get a few years then on with your life (off to kill more women presumably).

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 12:19

Ugh sorry for repost there.

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 12:19

Pam thanks for the link to the Hull paper (above) about why it was manslaughter. I still don’t get why it wasn’t murder. but hopefully a lawyer can explain.

The perpetrator was not up for (quoting from that Hull newspaper):
Voluntary manslaughter – whereby the defendant is found to have had the intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm to the victim.

Instead He DID get:
Involuntary manslaughter – the defendant is found to be responsible for the offence of murder, but there is no clear motive for the act.

...NO CLEAR MOTIVE? what, apart from that he was into the sexual torture of drunk and high women that he had only just met?

According the Hull newspaper ‘In this case it was clear Gaskell did not intend to kill Laura which put him in the category of involuntary manslaughter’.

How is her consent (even to just sex) so ‘clear’?

The article goes on to say:

‘Gaskell does have previous convictions for violence but nothing so serious as this offence.’^ so he has a history of violence- was that all accidental too? Or perhaps he wasn’t having sex with those victims at the same time so with those he was actually, you know, properly culpable for those crimes. But that history is judged to be irrelevant because this time he is having sex with a ‘consenting woman’ when the death, er, occurs. Fucktrance again.

This is the most depressing part: ‘Perhaps most crucially, Gaskell pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity which means he received a mandatory third off his sentence. This means he would have been jailed for nine years which is at the top end of a typical sentence for manslaughter but with the third off it was reduced to six years.

So he knew the law. But so what? He couldn’t deny it. What else was he going to say because he clearly WAS the killer.

So what he did his best to paint himself as a contrite but considerate man who uses ‘safe words’ Hmm, painting himself as victim of a tragic accident who has to live with the consequences. It’s sickening.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/laura-huteson-death-killer-stabbed-13060800
The daily Mirror reports that:

‘The court heard Gaskell kept the knife under his pillow, and had a history of "taking risks" [yes - RISKS WITH HIS PARTNERS’ LIVES.. HE JUST HADN’T QUITE KILLED ONE YET] during sex and jeopardising the safety of his partners with “bizarre and violent sado-masochistic sexual activity”.

“Mild to moderate force” was needed to inflict the injury, and marks found on Ms Huteson's neck were “consistent with rough sex”.

OK wait so acceptable ‘ROUGH SEX’ now legitimately covers being strangled to the point where you think the man is not going to stop? Just no.

The Mirror continues:

‘The sex was consensual and Gaskell has “no recollection of the safe word being used” when he killed Ms Huteson, the court heard.’

The sex might have been consensual but the throat cutting clearly could not have been. I.e the bullshit fucktrance defence. He didn’t remember hearing her say stop. Why is that even relevant? He needed to be told not to kill a woman? Wouldn’t that mean the intent WAS killing?

If any of us had a knife at our throat and realised the man was likely to use it to cut, stab or slash us, we might well not be able to remember what the fucking ‘safe word’ is* or be able to utter it anyway.

Whether for shock, fear, being drunk, high and out of it, (all indicating lack of consent) or perhaps you know, just the significant pressure of a knife on our throat, or the combination of all three might take our opportunity to er, speak up clearly?

That doesn’t mean we are consenting to have our throats cut too because we have consent to sex. That doesn’t mean the bigger stronger person fucking us while holding a knife in the exact right place to kill us NEEDS A VERBAL REMINDER FROM US not to actually KILL US.

Women are not responsible for stopping men from KILLING THEM. Nobody can legally consent to another person killing them.

The whole ‘Safe Word’ thing sounds highly dubious and part of an impression being weaved for the court by the defence that this is a consenting relationship in which he ‘loved’ her etc.

The pair had just met, they’d been drinking and taking cocaine, he’d previously that evening strangled her during sex to the point that the victim told her friend that the victim ‘thought he wouldn’t stop’- so not at all how safe words work.

That IS how men who get off sexually on playing with women’s lives work though.

I find this so appalling. his insultingly low sentence (that is not for murder) seems to revolve around that she can’t speak because she’s dead.

In court it seems to have been accepted that because she didn’t use the safe word (or he didn’t ‘recall’ that she did Hmm) then it was kind of understandable that he just went ahead and with ‘force’ cut her throat.

I just don’t understand how that’s acceptable. Sad or manslaughter really.

Ereshkigal · 12/08/2018 12:13

Totally agree Chatty Angry

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 12:10

Pam thanks for the link to the Hull paper (above) about why it was manslaughter. I still don’t get why it wasn’t murder. but hopefully a lawyer can explain.

The perpetrator was not up for (quoting from that Hull newspaper):
Voluntary manslaughter – whereby the defendant is found to have had the intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm to the victim.

Instead He DID get:
Involuntary manslaughter – the defendant is found to be responsible for the offence of murder, but there is no clear motive for the act.

...NO CLEAR MOTIVE? what, apart from that he was into the sexual torture of drunk and high women that he had only just met?

According the Hull newspaper ‘In this case it was clear Gaskell did not intend to kill Laura which put him in the category of involuntary manslaughter’.

How is her consent (even to just sex) so ‘clear’?

The article goes on to say:

‘Gaskell does have previous convictions for violence but nothing so serious as this offence.’^ so he has a history of violence- was that all accidental too? Or perhaps he wasn’t having sex with those victims at the same time so with those he was actually, you know, properly culpable for those crimes. But that history is judged to be irrelevant because this time he is having sex with a ‘consenting woman’ when the death, er, occurs. Fucktrance again.

This is the most depressing part: ‘Perhaps most crucially, Gaskell pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity which means he received a mandatory third off his sentence. This means he would have been jailed for nine years which is at the top end of a typical sentence for manslaughter but with the third off it was reduced to six years.

So he knew the law. But so what? He couldn’t deny it. What else was he going to say because he clearly WAS the killer.

So what he did his best to paint himself as a contrite but considerate man who uses ‘safe words’ Hmm, painting himself as victim of a tragic accident who has to live with the consequences. It’s sickening.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/laura-huteson-death-killer-stabbed-13060800
The daily Mirror reports that:

‘The court heard Gaskell kept the knife under his pillow, and had a history of "taking risks" [yes - RISKS WITH HIS PARTNERS’ LIVES.. HE JUST HADN’T QUITE KILLED ONE YET] during sex and jeopardising the safety of his partners with “bizarre and violent sado-masochistic sexual activity”.

“Mild to moderate force” was needed to inflict the injury, and marks found on Ms Huteson's neck were “consistent with rough sex”.

OK wait so acceptable ‘ROUGH SEX’ now legitimately covers being strangled to the point where you think the man is not going to stop? Just no.

The Mirror continues:

‘The sex was consensual and Gaskell has “no recollection of the safe word being used” when he killed Ms Huteson, the court heard.’

The sex might have been consensual but the throat cutting clearly could not have been. I.e the bullshit fucktrance defence. He didn’t remember hearing her say stop. Why is that even relevant? He needed to be told not to kill a woman? Wouldn’t that mean the intent WAS killing?

If any of us had a knife at our throat and realised the man was likely to use it to cut, stab or slash us, we might well not be able to remember what the fucking ‘safe word’ is* or be able to utter it anyway.

Whether for shock, fear, being drunk, high and out of it, (all indicating lack of consent) or perhaps you know, just the significant pressure of a knife on our throat, or the combination of all three might take our opportunity to er, speak up clearly?

That doesn’t mean we are consenting to have our throats cut too because we have consent to sex. That doesn’t mean the bigger stronger person fucking us while holding a knife in the exact right place to kill us NEEDS A VERBAL REMINDER FROM US not to actually KILL US.

Women are not responsible for stopping men from KILLING THEM. Nobody can legally consent to another person killing them.

The whole ‘Safe Word’ thing sounds highly dubious and part of an impression being weaved for the court by the defence that this is a consenting relationship in which he ‘loved’ her etc.

The pair had just met, they’d been drinking and taking cocaine, he’d previously that evening strangled her during sex to the point that the victim told her friend that the victim ‘thought he wouldn’t stop’- so not at all how safe words work.

That IS how men who get off sexually on playing with women’s lives work though.

I find this so appalling. his insultingly low sentence (that is not for murder) seems to revolve around that she can’t speak because she’s dead.

In court it seems to have been accepted that because she didn’t use the safe word (or he didn’t ‘recall’ that she did Hmm) then it was kind of understandable that he just went ahead and with ‘force’ cut her throat.

I just don’t understand how that’s acceptable. Sad or manslaughter really.

Iused2BanOptimist · 12/08/2018 11:37

I agree Lang
I am wondering why the CPS invested so much in improving rape convictions, with much publicity about consent or lack of when drunk (even though there have been some very depressing cases regarding this) and yet women being murdered is just a sex game gone wrong and no one is concerned?

Ereshkigal · 12/08/2018 11:34

Agree.

LangCleg · 12/08/2018 11:27

Men do not die from "sex games gone wrong". Women do. At some point, the law must sit up, take notice, and reflect this in legislation and sentencing. We cannot have a situation where pornsick men think their sex lives should be all about enacting the Pornhub top ten and women are dying on a regular basis. The system is failing women.

I will sign your petition, Justice, and I think we need to start a range of campaigns on this topic.

placemats · 12/08/2018 11:14

Thank you Justice

ChattyLion · 12/08/2018 10:25

Fantastic Justice.

Poppyred85 · 12/08/2018 09:07

The significance of the alcohol and cocaine shouldn’t be underplayed here either, both in terms of her ability to consent but also the effect it is likely to have had on the perpetrator. A number of years ago I worked with a psychiatrist in a young offenders unit. The number of young men who had been imprisoned for assault, affray and similar violent offences while under the influence of a mix of Cocaine and alcohol was staggering. The psychiatrist I worked with was not surprised. It had become commonplace to find this as an aggravating factor in an offence. I’m not saying this as some sort of mitigating factor for the perpetrator, quite the opposite. The mix of cocaine and alcohol should have been a red flag for those involved that there would likely have been considerably more violence involved than if he hadn’t used.

WeWantJustice · 12/08/2018 07:31

It has become very very dangerous for women to sleep with unknown men

The petition is now being checked to ensure that it meets the correct standards (whatever they are) and once it does, they will publish it

I'll post it here