The science of transgender / gender identity

Yes I omitted to say all due to genetic effects on the way the brain develops, thanks for explaining very eloquently!

The sex linked disorders probably extends to and explains the higher incidence of sp and Lang and motor skill difficulties among boys.

Autistic brains have been shown to have genetic differences from non autistic brains. The whole story is yet to be clarified. It is being investgated as a sex-linked disorder. Like many disorders, multiple genes as well as environmental considerations are likely, but at least one of these may be a sex linked issue.

Sex linked genes are located on sex chromosomes so they are inherited and expressed in slightly different ways depending on sex. This does not in any way mean male and female brains are different, just that the inheritance of certain features becomes more or less likely depending on sex.

Therefore the observation that more boys than girls have autism need not be due to either girl/boy brain or due to socialisation, it is simply (or partly) due to inheritance patterns of sex chromosomes. None of the women on here have ever disputed that men have different sex chromosome pairs to women!

i've never found arguments based on neurological make-up very convinncing, tbh; and even less so after reading rebacca jordan-young's brain storm. there just doesn't seem any need to code into the brain what the body already does.

personally i think the best way to look at this issue (at least until we reach an adequate level of scientific understanding) is through philosophy of mind, particularly stuff around embodied and extended cognition.

I think I can attribute some the differences in diagnosis and presentation of girls with Autism to gender stereotypes - among less severely affected children with asd.

However, the numbers of boys who are more severely affected by autism (ie quite significant learning difficulties as well, very limited communication skills) are higher than girls.

Bbc news story on difference betteeen men and women's navigation skills:

"So countries where there is high equality between men and women, the difference between men and women is very small on our spatial navigation test.
"But when there's high inequality the difference between men and women is much bigger. And that suggests the culture people are living in has an effect on their cognitive abilities."

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-45134809

I believe there are some slight differences in young children but it's by no means black and white or fixed. Generally, there are many more boys in Sen schools, with sp and Lang difficulties, attention difficulties, needing OT support with fine motor skills. Some of this could be put down socialisation and there also can be a really bad attitude in the early years that "oh that's what boys are like" so early intervention is perhaps missed for boys, whereas it might be given earlier to a girl, but not all of it can be attributed to this. And of course there's always many exceptions to rules.

I don't have links sadly, just what I've observed and what OTs and sp and Lang specialists have told me.

But none of these additional needs are in anyway linked to sex roles.

The book at this link makes interesting reading.

I know that the theories advanced by Lawrence, Blanchard and Bailey are seen as controversial by trans activists, and they may or may not be right, but they at least represent a scientific approach to the issue. Most current discussion seems dominated by ideology rather than science.

You don't need books or references. Traits supposed to be female, in a brain inside a male body? Thus the traits aren't female. And vice versa. Thus traits are shared. Trans people themselves disprove male-female brain theories. That's all you need.

This is an excellent and very informative thread.

Haven't rtwt but in case nobody has linked to it yet, this is a brilliant, simply worded explanation of sex and gender:
sexandgenderintro.com/

LayOfTheLand

Unfortunately it's hard to tell the difference between genuine questioning and TRA sea lioning.

It does, usually, become clear during the course of a thread. But, we have had several sea lions on here who have lasted, quite literally, months and months.

A sea lion is someone who appears to ask innocent questions in order to get people to do a whole bunch of work, distracting them, and making them repeat themselves. Then acting all innocent over issues with oh really, I didn't really get that, ahh right, no, I sort of get it, can you explain more?

There is little difference between them and a genuine questioner. Fortunately, I have a lot of patience, and am also, always, speaking to more than just one person.

'JAQing off'

Not sure if the article below will help...

I read it and couldn't believe how far reaching this issue is..

medium.com/@sue.donym1984/inauthentic-selves-the-modern-lgbtq-movement-is-run-by-philanthropic-astroturf-and-based-on-junk-d08eb6aa1a4b

It would compromise the 'neutrality' of the MN hosts etc

You are quite right.
There are always some here with the patience to respond to JAQing off, and I admire them for it.

bewilderness, I don't think that would happen in the current climate, as a sticky thread covering these oft dealt with topics would imply an official backing to a point of view perhaps. It would compromise the 'neutrality' of the MN hosts etc

I have made no assumptions about you. I was addressing the frequency of the OPs like yours on FWR requesting that women perform this service.
We have asked for posts to be pinned so that people with this same question can have it served to them. To no avail.

You could find the answer with a simple search. There are dozens of these OPs posted on Feminism and Women's Rights that have been answered over and over. I wish MNHQ would give transgender advocates a board of their own so these repetitive requests for women to go over the same ground yet again could be moved there.

There are hundreds of people coming from a left/liberal/live and let live angle, realising what an authoritarian, misogynistic, narcissistic - and worryingly powerful - movement it's become.

^^This.

You always have to ask yourself why are feminists the people who object the most?

Feminist who are traditionally left-wing, liberal, inclusive.

Transgenderism is the ultimate in patriarchal control. When men, any man, can claim to be a woman, and therefore speak on behalf of women, represent women, shame them, tell them what to say, how to think, what they can and can't accept, how their boundaries will be re-written, and what constitutes the very definition of woman, you know you're in bloody trouble.

Although, I don't think this is an issue between left and right wing politics. This affects women everywhere, regardless of their political affiliation.

That’s is what some people say, I’m not saying that’s what I think.

Of course some people say that there is no physical issue with someone who is trans, rather it is an entirely mental issue.
Rather like someone who has anorexia, they look in the mirror and see someone who is fat, no one would suggest they really are fat.

Let me see if I can dredge up the one where we developmental scientists/geneticists take the nature oped apart...

I missed that and would be very grateful if you manage to find it! What jumped out at me from the article is something I was taught 20-odd years ago - "do NOT muddle the genetics of mice and men". Mouse studies shouldn't be read as anything but "well, that works in mice so let's see if it works in humans", not "these mammalian systems are the same". This something that drives me crackers about popular science writing.

OP, the way you feel is very common and by no means new - I've been digging back through the gender critical subforum on reddit (I know, reddit's usually a cesspool but that sub feels like the only other sane place on this subject!), and this has been going on for years. There are hundreds of people coming from a left/liberal/live and let live angle, realising what an authoritarian, misogynistic, narcissistic - and worryingly powerful - movement it's become.

Thank you to the posters on this thread for explaining this complicated issue so well.

catkind