Trans sexuality

Definitively a thing, and in the absence of it I suspect we’d see fewer trans people, tbh.

I think alot of men would actually be open to being with trans women if they didn't feel gay was such a negative.

I don't disagree with that. Internalised homophobia is definitely a thing.

I saw a doc ages ago about straight guys in relationships with Thai ladyboys. The men very much felt they were 100% hetro. It seems like they were prepared to accept the fact their lover had a penis because they were litrially a million times hotter than any bio woman they could get with. These guys were fat middle age English men.

I think younger generations will become more open to relationships with trans people as old predudises about being gay disappear. I think alot of men would actually be open to being with trans women if they didn't feel gay was such a negative.

Sorry, it was 2LitreBottle who was describing sex, not hipster!

Lol hipsterfun, it was graphic.

And I had a bit of a ooh, steady on, moment.

But there's no doubt about it, it amply demonstrated what heterosexuality is. It's opposite sex attraction. The end. (Granted, not everyone has it to that depth).

But the point is sexual orientation is not a spectrum. It just isn't.

Sexual attraction might well be.

They are different things.

Heterosexual is opposite sex attracted. That's it. If they occasionally sleep with the same sex because they are sexually attracted to them they are not heterosexual.

It's not a judgement. And I think that's where the problem arises.

It certainly doesn't matter to me what someone privately calls themself if they mainly sleep with one sex and occasionally the other.

It does matter to me if certain men are redefining sexual orientation to mean gender orientation, and using 'attraction as a spectrum', as the basis.

You can't go around telling lesbians that sexual orientation now means gender orientation so they have to accept dick. And if they don't it's because they are exercising their preference. They're not. It's their orientation they are exercising.

It's unacceptable and changing the meaning of language.

I'm also heterosexual.

I have dated 'manly' men and effeminate men; men who went to the gym and men who wore make up; men who had long hair and men who were bald but they all had one thing in common. They were men.

I would not fancy a transman because, in my head and my heart, I would know and believe that they were a woman. I would not fancy a transwoman because, well, I just wouldn't.

But then, as I'm heterosexual, they wouldn't be interested in me anyway...

Nothing wrong with it necessarily but I did wonder whether the pp needed a description of having precum rubbed on her. Maybe it was just too early in the day for me.

Um yeah thanks for the graphic description of your heterosexuality 2litre

What’s wrong with it?

I’m the same and seldom hear it described so plainly. It’s necessary to be ‘graphic’ in order to be clear how at odds the TRA line is with some people’s reality.

I do find the idea that discovery of unexpected gentalia being an instant turnoff is bigoted, weirder than most of the guff that comes out of this movement.

I went out with a woman I found devastatingly attractive, with the most gorgeous spiky blonde crop that curled ever so slightly round her neck. One night she took a notion to shave her head. (No issue with that, I've done it myself before)
When we woke up, I realized all my attraction to her had evaporated and the relationship ended there. Simple as that.
She hadn't become ugly, or a horrible person. It was just a change in appearance that affected my attraction to her. And that was that.

I love feminine men! But definitely with nice cocks and no tits. I could find a person who was what we used to call a transvestite attractive; they'd need to be honest and not a narcissist or misogynist but that goes for my friends too. It is a shame the media gives a lot of attention to trans people who don't fit that bill.

Orientation is straight, bi or gay. That’s innate and seems to have a biological basis (and a biological advantage for closely related people interestingly enough.)

No one is a bigot for not fancying anyone outside their sexual orientation. I’m straight. I’m not a bigot for excluding all women from my pool. A lesbian is not a bigot for excluding all people who are not female homosexuals from her pool.

People who identify as trans have a range of sexualities as well and those are valid.

The problem is when one group are told they can no longer blanket exclude but must consider everyone and justify on a case by case basis why they won’t sleep with someone. That crosses the line to sexual entitlement and it’s not OK.

And it’s not OK for everyone - telling a straight Male he must consider all other males and justify cases by case is not OK. He’s straight - he doesn’t fancy men. Similarly telling a lesbian or straight woman they must be open to all transwomen is not OK - our sexual preferences are not up for debate or the pushing of boundaries.

Respectful sexual behaviour acknowledges this. Anyone pushing the ‘case by case’ angle is not respecting boundaries and those who do not respect sexual boundaries are a danger

We grow up and figure out our sexuality, then our preferences in that group.

I don't find skinny men attractive, or long hair for example.
I don't however think I am entitled to have sex with anyone I fancy.

If a straight male wants to be a woman then they know their pool of potential partners massively decreases. Men are out as they aren't gay, lesbians don't want dick and most hetero women wouldn't be attracted to a male presenting as female.

This is where the whole "genitals don't matter you BIGOT" comes in. We are now being told that our own preferences are wrong.

Transactivism likes to confuse preference with orientation

Yes. These are two very different things. I wouldn't have a relationship with anyone with narc tendencies and if you asked me what about a person physically is likely to make me fancy them it would be their eyes - but neither of these things have anything whatsoever to do with my sexual orientation.

It's such a personal thing though isn't it?

For me personally I do see sexual attraction as a kind of spectrum with homosexual as a fixed point at one end and heterosexual the same at the other.

In between I think it can be very much down to personal choice. Do you find this individual attractive? Do they reciprocate that feeling? Then off you go to bump uglies and it's no-one else's business!

I would probably, if pressed, describe myself as hetero. I probably wouldn't be in a sexual relationship with a woman, as (at least so far) I haven't found one that I fancy. Never say never though! But pre-DH I dated a couple of cross-dressers back in the day (hey it was the 80s ffs, bite me) and being a transwoman certainly wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me if the attraction was there. Similarly I wouldn't rule out a transman either, although the lines are slightly more blurred there for me at least.

I do wish that society as a whole would keep its nose out and not judge others' personal and sexual relationships though. I don't care who anyone else sleeps with as long as it's consensual, wish more people would just mind their own business and not judge.

Um yeah thanks for the graphic description of your heterosexuality 2litre. I think it’s a bit harsh to say nobody fancies them. People obviously do. Not everyone thinks like you and it’s as wrong to say that your view is the right one as it is to say that all lesbians should accept trans women. The point is that it’s an individual thing. I also agree with others who say that sexuality is not 100% innate. Social conditioning forms a part of it as it does in nearly all areas of our lives.

Don't date eachother

I have to admit to wondering how emotionally draining a relationship with a trans person must be. Maybe that's why they don't care eachother. Because things centre too much around having to train your brain that what you see stood naked in front if you is not what you really see. There's not really room for more than one person when you constantly have to tiptoe around ensuring you don't slip up. Either with pro nouns. Or the trans person slipping the "behaviour/voice" training

"fanny gallops"

Cough. Sorry. As you were.

Someone who is attracted to both sexes is bisexual. That's not difficult to understand. And I'm sure there are lots of bisexual people.

I'm not sure if you are heterosexual or homosexual you will change your orientation based on someone's outer appearance.

People don't have much trouble imagining that a homosexual man would not fancy a transman, under any circumstances.

People obviously do feel attracted to trans people as many of them are quite successful romantically. Tbh I think society shapes our attractions more than we think. I would not be attracted to someone who had, e.g., male genitals but also breasts, FFS and generally feminine presentation. However I do think younger people have spent the past few years stewing in “hearts not parts” rhetoric and in many cases this will have actually impacted on what they’re attracted to.

Of course, sexual orientation is real and many people will only ever be attracted to men/women who have all the traditional parts. But I do believe there are more people in the middle than we think, people whose sexual interests are very much subject to the expectations of the day. I think it’s a good thing if people are becoming more open to different experiences - except, obviously, where pressure is being applied to certain people (mainly lesbians right now).

Sexual orientation is a protected chacteristic. Precisely because it is understood to be innate and based on sex.

If you are attracted to men, as a class, but not attracted to transwomen because of their trans identity, that's a preference, it doesn't alter your orientation.

Transactivism likes to confuse preference with orientation.

You fancy who you fancy and no-one can mandate otherwise.

It's interesting how some people seem to think they are the sexuality and relationships police all of a sudden.

This thing they say "Aha! You fancied that person until you found out they were trans and then you didn't, that makes you transphobic!" - I've fancied people until I found out their politics and then went off them immediately. Why you're attracted to someone is down to you and your own foibles.

What confuses me is that there are a lot of young trans men YouTubers, who formally identified as lesbians, but now identify as gay men because they’re attracted to other trans men. Or, if they’re in a relationship with a woman, they are now het.

No, its not called 'cishet'. It's called 'heterosexuality'. Sexual orientation is not bigoted. Its innate not learned, its not something you have to deal with or get over.

Who trans people want to hook up with is their business. Same as for everyone. Feminist theory tends to say thats not an issue as long as its always informed and consenting.

This. And since trans people all seem to maintain their sexuality pre and post transition (they don't suddenly get genderalities instead of sexualities), I am unsure why they are horrified and outraged to learn that everybody else maintains theirs, regardless of other people's transition.