Trans sexuality

That’s interesting Writersblock2, as those saying “sexuality is a spectrum” seem to be implying a sliding scale with attraction to men at one end, women at the other and trans in the middle.

However, your experience as a bisexual person doesn’t seem to back that up. And the uncanny valley theory must be part of it. That unease that things are not as they appear - we are naturally wary of deception.

I also think that I would be unable to form any kind of relationship with someone who spouted the trans mantras (TWAW etc) because I would feel lied to/gaslighted and, as a precious victim of DV, I have my guard up around anyone who tries to hoodwink/intimidate me into mistrusting my own perceptions.

This is a really interesting thread. I’m bisexual (I’m married to a man and therefore most of this is moot now) and genitals matter to me too. I think that sexual attraction goes a lot deeper than just genitals, and yes, it’s biological. Hormones, pheromones etc all play a part. And I think that’s why I’ve yet to be sexually attracted to someone who is trans; plus no matter what they say, it’s pretty obvious which sex they are (yes, a single photo can hide it, but generally being in the presence of a person it becomes clear).

I’m trying to pinpoint exactly what it is and it is difficult to articulate. For example, my sexual attraction to men is a lot more narrowly defined than my attraction to women - I prefer masculine looking men (physically; their expression can vary - see later in post) but I can be attracted to feminine and masculine looking women (with a more defined lean towards the latter) but I would not be attracted to a transman, particularly one who had surgical changes (and this is also where sex characteristics matter: I’m attracted to women with breasts and vaginas and men with penises, neo “either” doesn’t cut it).

And of course the mind comes into play too because while we do have physical sexual attraction and that is important, that isn’t the only factor we build relationships upon, which I think for me is where it’s more about preference within my sexuality. For example, I would love and be attracted to a woman who had a masectomy for medical reasons despite the secondary sex characteristic I’m attracted to being gone (and that would be a sexual attraction I would miss) - to be crude, she’d still have a vagina; but I’d not be sexually attracted to a transman who felt they weren’t biologically female because the signals MY body would be receiving from them would tell me they are, and those signals matter. In the same way, I find women wearing masculine clothes are often very sexy, and sometimes men with certain feminine ways about them but who are obviously still men (think new romantic types, Marc Bolan etc or even Tim Curry in Rocky Horror) are also sexy. Interestingly, I used to find old school Eddie Izzard attractive, but the more he has tried to emulate femininity the more I went off him (and it was a physical reaction) until it vanished altogether.

Intelligence also features heavily in my sexuality. Many a person has opened their mouth and talked bollocks, and consequently my physical sexual attraction to them vanished in a heartbeat, never to return, while on the flip side, a single characteristic such as a certain voice (hello, Alan Rickman) can send me into orbit and other aspects I might care about suddenly don’t matter.

I would never say I would never be sexually attracted to a certain type of person (e.g trans) but I can say it hasn’t happened yet (frequently, I have the opposite reaction; it reminds me a little bit of an uncanny valley response, for those who know their psychology).

I don’t even know if that makes sense, but that’s how my sexual attraction works.

They know sexual orientation is fixed and innate. Otherwise, they wouldn't maintain their own through transition and, in gender ideology speak, go from gay man to straight woman or straight man to lesbian woman. They keep their orientations, so all this guff about everyone else having to change theirs is stuff and nonsense.

Funny how TRAs don’t get this, you know, TWAW and all that

Yes, I think that the whole 'TW are the most oppressed group' stuff comes from the fact that TW believe that things women suffer as a result of biology, such as sexual harassment, rape, DV, discrimination at work are very trivial. In fact, they sometimes see it as a privilege for someone to discriminate on the basis of sex, because, for them, it reinforces womanhood. So for TW they see biological women as having nothing but cis-privilege whereas they themselves are the victims. In reality though, how can you be oppressed as a result of your biology, but simultaneously have privilege? It's illogical. There is no privilege (in terms of social status) that comes from being a woman. The only difference is that nobody ever questions whether you are in fact female, which is the 'privilege' TW are talking about.

No one is a bigot for not fancying anyone outside their sexual orientation.

Well put.

Of course genitals matter. Our reproductive system has been at the root of our oppression for hundreds of years.

Funny how TRAs don’t get this, you know, TWAW and all that.

Genitals matter. They aren't a preference, they form part of a person's sexual orientation.

I am a straight woman. I only wish to engage in intimate relationships with someone who looks like a man both with and without clothes. A penis needs to function like a penis should. A vulva would be an instant turn-off.
I'm not a bigot or cissexist or any other stupid made up word, I'm straight.

The transactivists are delusional in their refusal to accept this and some of their bullying tactics, particularly of younger people, has been horrific.

A person's sexual orientation is not determined by other peoples attraction TO them.

This does seem to be a major misunderstanding among the class of people who consider being told no a hate crime.

boopsy

Well exactly. Which is why trans logic doesn't work.

iamawoman has the answer.

Likewise heterosexual men who are now 'transwoman , who are wanting to change the meaning of lesbian so they can indulge in some sexual validation at the expense of another persons innate sexual orientation

I'm with you too, @2LitreBottle.

Yes I agree they are making themselves very niche.

I'm with you @2LitreBottle I like my man to be male with an actual penis and definitely no plastic moobs.

Sorry I know it’s an overshare, I’m just trying to get to the bottom of why genitals DO matter in the bedroom - at least to me - and why I don’t accept the idea that biology is bigotry. I’m programmed by nature to want certain things as part of my sex life. Being told that what’s between their legs doesn’t matter because it’s how they identify that is all important, well that doesn’t stack up to me.

Biology matters. Clothes come off and identities are intangible. Saying you only want a dick or a vagina on a sexual partner should not be up for debate.

@foxy how did you get so drunk at 13.04 on a Friday?

Yes, very reminiscent, Radar.

OP how do you know any Transperson would fancy you

This reminds me of when a guy chats you up and you turn him down, then he immediately starts saying he was just being friendly, he's not interested in you, you're rough, not his type yada yada yada.

You have to ask yourself is there somthing missing from your life to be obsessed with what other people do in bed ?

What other consenting adults do freely and with no coercion or impact on others is their business as long as it’s private.

When it starts to impact on others we have a problem.

So for example taking a fetish public is involving those who don’t want to be involved - that’s abusive.

Telling lesbians they HAVE to accept ladypenis or they are vilified - not ok. Telling people they HAVE to look case by case rather than just exclude say, all women/men is not OK.

And in a wider context, stuff like the normalisation of choking and anal driven by porn are eroding women’s safety as well. Because they become expected acts, and set the tone of sexual interactions. There was a case a while back where a woman and man met at a bus stop and they went back to his and he choked her to death. The defence tried to argue that she was into choking - now that I find very worrying because it sets the tone that meeting someone, going back to theirs and being throttled to death is ‘just a bit of fun gone wrong’ because hey! All cool girls like a bit of choking. Rather than an unusual and serious assault.

So people can do whatever they want, in private, as consenting adults if it impacts on nobody else.

Once it starts to leave those confines it is everyone else’s business and we have a right to say no.

OP how do you know any Transperson would fancy you ?

How is that even relevant? And it's often response, which I really don't get.

A person's sexual orientation is not determined by other peoples attraction TO them.

You have to ask yourself is there somthing missing from your life to be obsessed with what other people do in bed ?

Like some straight women tell me and my girlfriend I could never fancy a woman ! We always say, how do you know any lesbian would fancy you ? Lesbians are a lot more chosey that straight men !

Its like straight men are obsessed with what Jo and I get up to in bed, and a few straight females we meet who arent friends
(when they have had a drink )

any straight guys who ask, we always say , well we like BDSM with straight guys , we take it in turns being tops with straight men we like to peg them , we dont !

one ex G/F left her strap , when we split , when Jo,s mum and dad came round for dinner , we washed it and left it drying in the bathroom to see what their reaction was

nothing was mentioned , but I could see her dad looking at Jo his daughter with some pride, as he always treats her as a boy/man , which I regulaly pull him up about

I have some rich cousins in Berkshire , who invited us over for the weekend , my cousin kept saying you wont kiss in front of us will you or hold hands , we did it all the more and in the local pub , everyone in the pub was quite cool about it , my cousion realised she was in the wrong , this is the 21st century !

OP how do you know any Transperson would fancy you ?

I have always fancied a particular lesbian , who disrupted London pride , but I and a few other lesbians have gone off her since that , like I/we would go off another lesbian who was bigotted about Blacks/ Jews /Muslims

It's very clear from so many blogs and YouTube videos that there are plenty of TRAs who are very pissed off by the shortage of female partners. I've been interested to learn from transsexual posters how much counselling they got on their expectations of life post transition. The new breed of non dysphoric TW haven't had this sort of counselling and have perhaps never thought much about it. They definitely seem to be working off a totally unrealistic set of beliefs and expectations.

A lot of what they say seems based on fantasies about what women's lives are like, as on another thread, where posters were quoting middle aged men who described themselves post transition as teenage girls going through puberty. They seem to have expected to have plenty of lesbian partners and are bitter and resentful when they realise the truth. And they never seem to register that their sexual expectations of women display classic nasty male entitlement rather than the inner womanliness they claim to experience.

These activists have no shame over bullying or manipulating women into sex - as with the Riley J Dennis video "Are your dating preferences discriminatory?" - which totally ignores the truth that all dating preferences are discriminatory by their nature.

Hipster I agree with that. Many far-right people accept trans much more than they do gay people. As in it’s wrong to be gay but if you’re trans, it’s fine, you were just born in the wrong body. Have seen this with parents of trans children too and of course the research shows that kids with gender dysphoria usually grow out of it and often become gay adults.

Interestingly the ‘born this way’ mantra re sexuality also has homophobic roots. Gay people were forced to defend their sexuality by saying they couldn’t help it- they didn’t choose it. I am sure it is partly innate but I also think that if we didn’t live in such a hetero-centred society that people’s ‘natural’ orientation might be quite different to what it is now. Also, some lesbians like Sheila Jefferies have spoken about making an active choice to only have relationships with women. Doesn’t make her any less of a lesbian because of it.

Lol hipsterfun, it was graphic.

And I had a bit of a ooh, steady on, moment.

But there's no doubt about it, it amply demonstrated what heterosexuality is.

Dunno, I imagine not everyone’s heterosexuality has the same, um, sensuous things going on. Which is fine, of course.

But I do think natal male form and function, and the way we respond to it, deserves description in the same way that we describe precisely how, in form and function, a simulation of a vagina is not like a real vagina.

A neo-penis (if that’s what they’re called) can only really do the business in photos.

Better to discuss first thing, really, I don’t think it would be well received after midnight for obvious reasons

I'm heterosexual in much the same way as 2LitreBottle. I tried being bisexual in my youth because it was fashionable, but it never really worked for me. I love my women friends and aesthetically I love how women's bodies look but there's no sexual attraction there.

The men who turn me on are comfortable in their own skin. I could never be attracted to a trans person because of this as, by definition, they're not. Also I wouldn't be interested in anyone without a functioning penis.

Finding out actually at the point where you're expecting to have sex that a potential partner has a vulva rather than a penis would really freak me out and result in a total and immediate loss of interest. In fact I'd be annoyed if they had reason to expect that I was likely to be surprised.

I'd imagine that it could be downright dangerous if a man discovers just before sexual contact that a potential sex partner had an unexpected penis. Not that a violent reaction would be in any way justified, but it's still a very foolhardy thing to do.

Definitely, not definitively.