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Original poster

"Feminism is equality"

226 replies

MrGHardy · 09/08/2018 17:06

This is a response by a woman to a man talking about feminism:

"Your understanding is wrong. Where does everyone get this idea that feminism is some kind of for-all happy umbrella? It's for the equality of women vis-a-vis men. And men, Mr. Read, don't get to decide what feminism is."

I have come across this so often recently, where feminism is portrayed as "for equality so it is also for men" etc. and this Twitter user used a good phrase: "some kind of for-all happy umbrella".

I think it's a deliberate misrepresentation of feminism, in order to distract the discussion away from the issues, away from women, and to paint women in a bad light as some sort of female supremacists if they disagree with the idea, feminism is equality for all i.e. also for men. The idea "feminism is for women does not imply it is not for equality" seems also hard for people to understand and is easily misrepresented.

How do you deal with this? If you constantly have to first convince people that feminism is not for men, not a blanket "for-all happy umbrella", it gets very frustrating and distracts from the issue at hand (and instead leads to a debate about what feminism is, and what its goals are and who it is for). Additionally, as a man you are quickly accused of mansplaining (especially by women who for some reason believe that feminism is also for men) or at least asked for a definition which is a) difficult to do for me b) at least in my case necessarily leads to accusations of mansplaining.

OP posts:
heresyandwitchcraft · 10/08/2018 12:57

Nu, if you knew anything about feminism, and radical feminism, you’d know that no males are included. If you knew anything about this board you’d know we do not use that acronym to describe ourselves. The non-inclusion of males (like you) is literally the reason we are called “trans exclusionary” (even though it would include trans men, who are of the female sex)...
You don’t strike me as a female-centered (true feminist) in any way, shape or form, and are clearly just trying to derail this thread to suit your own agenda. Although it’s helpful because you’re illustrating our point. So thanks very much!

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/08/2018 12:54

The whole point of the OP is that

Equality is not feminism

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 12:51

TCG,

I believe in equality. I'm a Fem whether you like it or not.

TheCountryGirl · 10/08/2018 12:46

Next he will be asking how black people are subjugated. Oh wait, no he won't. It's just women who are doubted and questioned.

And men can't be feminists. As you're proving.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 12:34

Take your face out for a shit fella

Still never happened, geezer

HashtagLurky · 10/08/2018 12:32

I don't want to be men's equal: that's not ambitious enough.

Melanippe · 10/08/2018 12:29

I'm afraid that's only happened in your head, mate

Take your face out for a shit fella.

heresyandwitchcraft · 10/08/2018 12:27

Why can’t women talk about women’s issues without having to prove why we care about them? They affect us. We have the statistics. What is it to you if we focus on trying to fix them?

I genuinely believe that MRAs have a point when they say that males are more likely to be homeless and die of suicide. I don’t think they have to prove they are being “subjugated” in order to talk about them. I just don’t think it’s for feminism to sort out - but the males themselves as they will understand the issues better due to personal experiences. I would never begrudge them the rights to speak about and organize around such issues and I would ally with sensible causes that tackle these problems!

Why can’t females be offered the same courtesy to focus on issues that disproportionately affect them as every other political group (eg sexual violence, deaths from domestic violence) without having to continually “prove their subjugation”?

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 12:26

I'm sure Shooz can google

I can, and I can't find the definition' so my bad. For the record, I'm a feminist. Probably a male Terf but a feminist nonetheless.

Cascade220 · 10/08/2018 12:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 12:21

He's had his arse handed to him elsewhere for being a creepy dick

I'm afraid that's only happened in your head, mate.

Melanippe · 10/08/2018 12:18

Shooz is not posting in good faith. He's had his arse handed to him elsewhere for being a creepy dick and has come here to teach the wimmin a lesson I fear.

BettyDuMonde · 10/08/2018 11:54

What definition did you read that included the term ‘subjugated’, Shooz?

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 11:49

I looked up the definition of Feminism the other day. Can someone tell me in what way women, in the UK, are in anyway shape or form "Subjugated"?

Thanks

Melanippe · 10/08/2018 11:45

Feminism as I understand it has little to do with equality. It's a liberation movement. It's a political movement to liberate women from the slavery of Patriarchy. No one sensible asks for equality with their oppressors, they demand to overthrow them. I think this was easier to understand when the movement was called "Women's Liberation"

TheCountryGirl · 10/08/2018 11:43

I saw some fb messages under a Pool (I know...) article today about how much nicer liberal feminists are because they want to include everyone and how nasty radical feminists are because they hate men (blah, blah) and then, of course, a load of woke men patting the lovely little lady on the head. It was so depressing.

Men approving of your feminism is a sure fire way of knowing that what you're doing is NOT feminism!

Ereshkigal · 10/08/2018 11:40

The argument that feminism is about some vague notion of “equality” is part of what’s gotten us into this liberal feminist nightmare, and given strength to MRAs (and the TRAs who insist on re-defining feminism). MRAs will argue that if feminism is about “equality”, they should be campaigning also for men’s issues, and instead of MRAs dealing with actual male issues they bash feminists for being hypocrites. Which, if your feminism is all about “equality”, then technically you are being a hypocrite for not focusing on men...

YY. Exactly.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 10/08/2018 11:31

Heresy, this!

I saw some fb messages under a Pool (I know...) article today about how much nicer liberal feminists are because they want to include everyone and how nasty radical feminists are because they hate men (blah, blah) and then, of course, a load of woke men patting the lovely little lady on the head. It was so depressing.

heresyandwitchcraft · 10/08/2018 11:23

The argument that feminism is about some vague notion of “equality” is part of what’s gotten us into this liberal feminist nightmare, and given strength to MRAs (and the TRAs who insist on re-defining feminism). MRAs will argue that if feminism is about “equality”, they should be campaigning also for men’s issues, and instead of MRAs dealing with actual male issues they bash feminists for being hypocrites. Which, if your feminism is all about “equality”, then technically you are being a hypocrite for not focusing on men...
No. No to all this nonsense.
Feminism is for females. Females of whatever background. But only females. It’s about women’s rights, and female-specific issues. It is not exclusionary to organize around issues specific to one group, especially if they make up half the population and have distinct needs.
I agree with Germaine Greer when she says that feminists don’t actually want “equality” in the sense that few women are clamoring for sanitation workers to have a 50% female workforce, or for nursing to become 50% male. Equality of opportunity, being treated with equal human dignity, yes. But feminism to me is looking at the unique features that affect the female sex, and making sure our laws and society address female needs.
If females don’t advocate for ourselves, who else is going to?

Cascade220 · 10/08/2018 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VickyEadie · 10/08/2018 10:54

You have to dispute the 'feminism is about equality' mantra every time, because - for one - thing - it allows men to say things like 'You've got equal pay (yeah!), what is there for you to complain about?'

Kyanite · 10/08/2018 10:41

I love Magdalen so much!

Ereshkigal · 09/08/2018 23:54

Oh that idiot!

BettyDuMonde · 09/08/2018 23:10

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bnrOLhx6L3c

BettyDuMonde · 09/08/2018 23:03

There is a brilliant Magdalen Burns video on this, I will try and find it.

I just answer stuff like this with ‘Feminism is advocacy for women and girls worldwide. Egalitarianism is equality for all’