Channel 4 appoints a new advisor on inclusion

That's why it's a mistake to say any word with "woman" in at all.

you've got to mention trans otherwise you've just got a rich white woman as an inclusion advisor

but how do you square that with the fact that Sue is definitely a stunning and brave woman due to TWAW?

bingo - "trans past"

it's an abortion of a phrase that is actively misleading, but when has that ever stopped these people?

OK. So the goalposts have changed AGAIN. - you can’t now reasonably call a trans person a ‘trans’ person ( ‘transwoman’ is already no longer deemed acceptable but ‘trans women’ was acceptable because it described a category of woman )

But it seems now you can only say ‘woman’ (‘with a trans past’) ... to explain the visual or aural or general incongruity of using the category descriptor of ‘woman’ with the male- bodied person in front of you. It’s forcing people to lie. That’s not OK.

This is straight up and appropriative gaslighting. Changing the terms constantly of what is acceptable speech and language and of what will apparently cause offence.. all the while increasingly encroaching and erasing on someone else’s reality.

Just absolutely no.

The individual reports having undergone full srs as well as facial surgery.

what datun said. It so good I'm going to repeat it even though it makes me furious:

Men with genuine gender dysphoria are few and far between. And would have faced personal challenges. Their mental health would benefit from social inclusion, accommodation and understanding

AGP individuals appropriate both them and women. It's a master stroke of sleight of hand

They use the suicide stats and minority disadvantage that simply don't apply to them. Leveraging someone else's damage for their own gain. The manipulation is breathtaking

So that channel 4 statement is just nonsense :
Sue is a woman with a trans past

This is how Sue Pacoe likes to describe herself- she's spoken about it previously, possibly on the SkyNews interview.

Its not dissimilar to Emily Brothers description of herself as a "a woman with trans experience"
Back in March, Lucy Masood was interviewed on R4 Today program with Emily Brothers.

When Emily used this description in the opening answer, it seemed to rather throw Lucy & she said something like, "Im not even sure what that means"
(link to interview in final post)[www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3200310-Radio-4-now?pg=10

This comment was then misunderstood / taken out of context / misquoted / manipulated (?) in an opinion piece in The Independent by Yas Necati:

'Lucy Masoud – let me tell you what it feels like to use a changing room as a transgender person.
Masoud, the Fire Brigade’s LGBT union representative, not only insulted trans people on the Today programme, but also undermined her role. Her job is to stand up for workers, particularly those who are most vulnerable to being abused'

(extract)
"The Fire Brigades Union’s LGBT representative Lucy Masoud’s comments on the Today Programme this morning were not only upsetting, but showed a deep misunderstanding of the experience of being transgender, which she admitted herself – “I’m not even sure what that means.” (continues)

the audio clip of the interview embedded in the article also starts just after Emily Brothers' comment about being "a woman with trans experience"!

www.independent.co.uk/voices/lucy-masoud-fbu-lgbt-trans-london-fire-brigade-union-today-transphobic-a8267096.html

What challenges has Sue ever faced in Sue’s previous professional and personal life as a high flying business man?
What challenges does Sue face now while Sue is busy advising C4 and hoping to get elected as a Tory MP?

This is the insidious and deceitful nature of transactivism. Men with genuine gender dysphoria are few and far between. And would have faced personal challenges. Their mental health would benefit from social inclusion, accommodation and understanding.

AGP individuals appropriate both them and women. It's a master stroke of sleight of hand.

They use the suicide stats and minority disadvantage that simply don't apply to them. Leveraging someone else's damage for their own gain. The manipulation is breathtaking.

So Sue Pascoe is an approved Tory party candidate, and a Tory party member under an LGBT banner- there is then nothing ‘past’ at all about Sue’s trans identity ?: www.lgbtconservatives.org.uk/people/sue-pascoe

So that channel 4 statement is just nonsense :
Sue is a woman with a trans past.

^ That description would apply to a female person who had in the past but now no longer, identified themselves as a trans man. That isn’t Sue’s situation.

Sue says Sue is coming into her ‘teenage girl years’ due to hormones- ‘Watch out world.’ etc. Oh please.

No male bodied person can EVER understand what being a teenage girl is like. It really isn’t all hormones and sexy fun Sue.

We should be VERY suspect of anyone that claims to be coming into their teenage girl years UNLESS they ARE actually a teenage girl.

Why didn’t C4 appoint a teenage girl?

This appointment is the OPPOSITE of diversity it’s brazenly entrenching

• sexism (stereotypes of what men and women can be like, look like, behave like)
• ageism (ageism directed at teenagers- by pornifying and trivialising the representation of their lives ‘watch out world!’ And reducing teenagers to their hormones based on their age- hormones which drive your behaviour uncontrollably according to this reductive stereotype ).
• tokenism
• appropriation of the lives of others and their experiences and identity
• appropriation of the struggles of others
• appropriation of the scarce opportunities available to others to speak about and act against the actual discrimination they face (based on their protected characteristics inherent to them by birth and not of their choosing or within their control .. (by taking up a ‘diversity’ role when you are a person with privilege, access, social capital, resources, wealth and power such that those facing discrimination and marginalisation could only dream of.)

When did encouraging ‘diversity’ in the workplace become about propping up a fetish?

What challenges has Sue ever faced in Sue’s previous professional and personal life as a high flying business man?
What challenges does Sue face now while Sue is busy advising C4 and hoping to get elected as a Tory MP?

I am sick to death of these brave stunners and their offensive fucking nonsense.

(What I said earlier, but edited for acceptability.)

My Dad bought a drum kit. We rolled our eyes at the time, but it could have been so much worse... his drumming days lasted a few months

Wasn't life much simpler when balding middle aged men bought a sports car when they had a mid-life crisis, rather than deciding that they were actually a brave and stunning girl?

Well it's all come full circle hasn't it.
Years ago, all the top positions were held by white middle-aged men.
They were pushed into increasing diversity so a few women were appointed and broader ethnicity was promoted.
That lead to some to shout "tokenism!" and complain that the best men were missing out on the top jobs.
Now the positions can be given back to the men who have transitioned into the new protected minority of transwomen.
I don't think they have any understanding of diversity.

The teenage girl comment is particularly offensive. What a middle-aged transwoman would know about going through puberty as a girl is beyond me.

*People are watching this thread because of the AGP subject.

Because, despite all the words that Sue has used about surgery, none of them are relating to their penis. The general public expect transwomen to have had penis surgery - a surgical 'sex change'. The fact that they don't, is quite shocking for them.*

Thanks for clarifying. Whilst I understand why a person would be hesitant in having genital surgery, I really care about who has a penis when it comes to sharing spaces where I will be vulnerable. It always dismays me when people with power mock or dismiss concerns like this. I have experienced rape and spend my life dealing with the consequences - of course I care about whether somebody has a dick! Are we to pretend we don't know that women are raped by people with penises? That is as logical as the American pro gun lobby.

Sue is surely a good choice. It fits the age group and milieu this person moves in. I know another late transitioner who just added an e to their previous name. All fine with me. I sometimes think about my own male alter ego, who would be called Martin - not a great name but absolutely typical of my age group. I prefer it when people who are transitioning pick names that seem to fit.

I was thinking that name choice doesnt affect others' safety or rights, but it does, a little - I would have to remind myself to take commonsense precautions when meeting anyone new on my own, and not to be relaxed just because the person uses a female name. Which really is reasonable advice in all circumstances.

We're doing our best (under rather difficult circumstances) to let these conversations happen - please help us out!

Thanks Joanne

Ah my deletions were for misgendering. Genuinely hadn't realised I'd done that as I'm very sleep deprived (thanks baby). Apparently several people complained about my post. Does that mean that my name will be watched from now on? I wouldn't want to get ideas above my station re my importance.....

sorry. daft and unrelated derail on a very serious subject that does make me furious

shutting up now

How do you do your trans name??

you mean you haven't thought about this? what do you do with your evenings?

mine is Heathcliffe Dexter

obvs

Why is it always transwomen in these roles? I wouldn't mind a trans man getting it as they are under represented. I think people employ people like them. The BBC is full of white wealthy woke Oxbridge left leaning types who vote Remain and read the Guardian and their idea of diversity is lots of transwomen from similar backgrounds with similar views. C4 go for a Tory variation on this.

Now those are names I would pick if I was in the market for one

How do you do your trans name??

I suspect the teenage girl hood that Sue is picturing for themselves is quite unlike my teenaged years, spent as a fat, spotty girl, made extremely uncomfortable by any male attention I received.

If you've grown up male you are going to have a hyper sexualised, fantasy type version in your brain of what it's like to be a 'teenage girl'.
It will be based on a set of male values.

and yes, like others, I suspect the teenage girl hood that Sue is picturing for themselves is quite unlike my teenaged years, spent as a fat, spotty girl, made extremely uncomfortable by any male attention I received.