Teen films girl in toilet

sarahAr of course there’s a link!

Let’s put two situations here. Let’s imagine that in both I’ve just been in that loo, and now I’ve washed my hands and I’m leaving. I know two young girls are in there alone.

1. Man approaches female toilet. I’m aware that two young girls and no one else is in there. He walks past me. I can either challenge him (gents are that way!) or I can turn round and go back in and make sure there’s another adult in, with the intention of calling for help if needed.

1. Man approaches female toilet. I’m aware that two young girls and no one else is in there. He walks past me. I’m aware that he’s actually allowed in, might self ID as a female and if I make a fuss I’ll be slapped on the wrists for transphobic behaviour.

In those two situations, no one in situation 2 can challenge. And many people in situation 2 would decide it’s not worth a talking to for transphobia. And so our young male offender (and please note I’m assuming they are just a male, I am not saying they’d be trans) just walks in.

How can you possibly say self ID has no impact?? It removes layer of protection a, which is that someone should t be there in he first place and it creates an unwillingness to step in and challenge.

you are assuming the person is transgender/self ID rather than thinking a male went into a female toilet, that seems a strange assumption to make

I am not assuming anything of the sort, please dont suggest that I have.

The issue is the safety (as well as privacy and dignity) of girls and women in single sex spaces. As the two young girls safety was seriously compromised, it is vital that there is discusion about this.

It is a matter of child protection and safeguarding.

Urban if changes to the law go ahead then women and girls lose their sex based rights and protections, all facilities will be mixed sex. Women and girls will also lose their right to protest males being present. We have seen women kicked out of gyms when they complain about men in their changing areas. So, they stay at home, we're back on the urinary leash. Or you carry on regardless without anywhere to let your guard down, no longer able to send your daughter in alone.

We have sex segregated areas because we made them, fought for them, paid to have them build. Men were so cross when women built toilets that they kept destroying them, driving their carriages into them. Now, here we are over a hundred years later and again our right to have some shit for ourselves is questioned.

If someone who appears to be male goes into a female toilet, women are told to assume they are transgender.
Until they reveal themselves as a sex pest at which point we are told to assume they are male.

Can you see a flaw in this system?

I misread yes they do appear to be single sex toilets but you are assuming the person is transgender/self ID rather than thinking a male went into a female toilet, that seems a strange assumption to make

The bigger issue here is that after self-id, ANY man can freely enter women's toilets. Self-id offers any predatory man (NB Mumsnet - I am NOT suggesting that transwomen are predatory, I'm talking about predatory men here) the opportunity to use the cover of self-id (given that to self-id, you don't need even to look like a woman) carte blanche to do what this youth did.

What's scary is the speed at which the behaviour escalated - less than a month after filming a girl he attacked another (the 10yo) and threatened to hurt her mum if she didn't comply. Good for her for screaming and running. But for it to escalate so quickly, he must have thought he'd be able to get away with it.

I misread yes they do appear to be single sex toilets but you are assuming the person is transgender/self ID rather than thinking a male went into a female toilet, that seems a strange assumption to make

Urbannightmare please read the thread and article.

sociopathsunited describes one of the stores based on personal experience.

They are both supermarket toilets and so it is completely reasonable to assume that if describing communal areas (with a father waiting outside) they would be single-sex toilets.

as raised upthread:
With regards the incidents described above I make the following observations based on the article cited:

The article describes the offender solely in gender neutral terms (the 17-year-old, teenager, the accused, his client) and uses the pronoun 'their'.

The references to description and voice being that of 'man / male' are reported speech and in quotation marks.

There is no indication that this person is transgender or that they are public single sex toilets - this is clearly an horrendous thing to have happened, and the indication of vulnerabilities of the perpetrator does not make it less so, but how is this a trans issue?

Finally, saying "this would happen anyway" when it comes to a sex offender targeting two girls, aged 10 and 12, on two separate occasions in public single-sex toilets where they should be safe, is just not good enough.

This. Absolutely vile thing to have said.

'Woman' that should say.

Ineedacupofteadesperately
I believe the majority of people in the UK believe that toilets are single sex and so in this situation especially, a 10 year old girl would likely choose to use the women's loo on her own and her father would expect (reasonably) there to be only females (& possibly post-op transsexuals) in there.

The poor girls, luckily he was caught at least. I think that the term anti women activists is brilliant. It clearly shows them for who they are.

Those poor girls! What a frightening experience for them. How awful must that Dad feel too - he absolutely would have assumed his daughter was safe in a female toilet.

I’m so angry that no-one appears to give a shit about the safety of young girls. All that ‘look it happens anyway so what’s the problem?’ - just fuck off!

Yes, I'm using anti woman activists from now on. Because it's what they are.

If a father is out with their daughter and she needs to use the loo, what should they do? yes, I'd really like the answer to this. I'm constantly in discussion with DH about this - he thinks waiting outside is ok. Also, what about when DH wants to go to the loo? He is in denial (in my opinion, having been a young girl) about the risk to DD1 and once let her go by herself to the loo in a pub (without waiting outside). I was horrified and have made it clear I am not ok with this. It fucking terrifies me. And that's even before self-ID.

One friend advocates getting young girls out with their Dads to use the disabled loo or single lockable cubicles only but this obviously isn't always possible and is a bit shit for disabled people (though hopefully they'd understand the safety issues for young girls).

Several of my friends were raped as young woman or girls. It's affected their whole lives.

Absolutely agree with term "anti woman activists" being more succinct and appropriate!

Better, not between

The "anti woman activists" is a way to take back the word "woman". This is the first time this has occurred to me, reading Pye's. Protesting against transactivists just sounds like we're bigoted and mean. Protesting against "anti woman activists" both takes back our word and highlights between what they do.

It feels like women's and girls' rights are under more attack now than at any time in the last 100 years. Now we can't even call ourselves 'women' :(

It is significant that this is in Scotland as there are already more pro- trans inclusive policies in place which affect children as well as adults.

It is likely that supportive services will have similar policies working with people with additional needs etc.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/16311379.schools-forget-girls-in-rush-to-adopt-pro-trans-guidance-campaigners-claim-as-christian-group-threatens-legal-action/

Article yesterday:
www.scotsman.com/news/primary-one-children-will-be-told-your-gender-is-what-you-decide-1-4779133

Anti women activists. Yeps

I am sick of anti women activists telling me nothing is changing, that everything is hunky dory.

Yes, instead of transactivists, I vote we call them "anti woman activists" given that they are calling us "anti trans activists".

We used to have same sex toilets, which transsexuals used. Now, due to the push against women and girl's rights and protections, we have more and more mixed sex facilities. Toilets, changing rooms, sports, hospital wards, language etc. I am sick of anti women activists telling me nothing is changing, that everything is hunky dory.

"The court was told a 10-year-old girl had been inside the toilets while her father waited outside. "

Miss Lumsden said: “The complainer’s dad then heard his daughter screaming and came running out of the bathroom, looking as if she was running away from someone."

Quoted from the article and an important point. Many fathers of girls this age would expect that their daughter would be going into a single-sex (female only) space.

The age of the girl is significant. If a father is out with their daughter and she needs to use the loo, what should they do?