Goat dies after violent attack by men **Title edited by MNHQ - distressing article in OP post**

I think we probs just need to agree to disagree on this tbh. Regarding toxic masculinity i think it's a huge problem, evidenced by the shocking male suicide rate and it being the main cause of death for men under 40. However, I also think a lot of inherent (to many man but obv not all) characteristics are often passed off as being toxic masculinity.

Is the bat signal shaped like a crying penis?

FFS, are you really stating that most men wouldn't be outraged by somebody fucking a goat?
Sure they would, if it is their goat.

And on another note (not aimed at you now, LassWi) I don't hold my non-violent partner responsible for the crimes of violent men any more than I hold the average black teenager responsible for gang stabbings or the average Muslim responsible for terrorist acts

But terrorist attacks barely happen and people we still make use "MUSLIM" in the headlines so we know who committed the crime. The papers are constantly asking us why muslims turn to "radical islam"

Despite the fact that muslims are the minority and they are the ones racially profiled and risking xenophobia and islamophobia and hate crimes.

If Muslims attacked 1 out of 4 people then I think it would be reasonable actually to have them discuss why they are so violent.

Why don't the papers discuss toxic masculinity the way they do radical islam? It's far more fucking prevalent and far more dangerous to people in this society (if you count women as people)

Upton seems to be really desperate for a bunfight. Might I suggest AIBU?

Meanwhile the women have been literally Creating All The People and packing lunches for Alexander’s forces. Perhaps it’s time to let us have a crack at it eh? The bar is fairly low, we just have to not do 98% of the violent crime right? I reckon that’s doable, despite us being all unstable and emotional and all.

May I just take this opportunity to mention how much I adorable you, babelfish?

Also too and besides, male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

It's misogynistic not to agree thst most men are fine with bestiality? GTFO of here lol.

That's the type of lunacy which makes a lot of people not take feminism seriously, which is a problem.

Seriously, why this of all threads in terms of sending out the angry misogynist bat signal?

FFS, are you really stating that most men wouldn't be outraged by somebody fucking a goat?

I don’t believe this story happened.

My first thought when I read this comment was "city person".

Growing up in the country you learn early on that some men and boys rape animals and the rest of the boys joke about it. The men and boys who are angered or outraged and moved to action by the rape of a person or animal not their own are the very small segment of the male population who are decent human beings.

LassWiDelicateAir

And I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

I was talking about the fact that whenever somebody mentions that men are at much higher risk of assault, somebody always says "but it's other men doing the attacking". My point is that it likely isn't much of a consolation to the guy that got assaulted or to the vast majority of non-violent males who comprise the majority of victims of the violent minority's violent acts.

And on another note (not aimed at you now, LassWi) I don't hold my non-violent partner responsible for the crimes of violent men any more than I hold the average black teenager responsible for gang stabbings or the average Muslim responsible for terrorist acts. To do so would be ridiculous and illogical.

But it is undoubtedly a big problem. My view on it is similar to RAINN's view on rape culture: that shifting the blame onto the majority takes the focus away from the true deviant perpetrators who are of course truly reprehensible individuals.

But I don't expect many to agree with my viewpoint as blaming all men is much more conducive to having a good old whinge about men in general.

bd67th

'slamming women for not inventing stuff historically deliberately ignores how we were barred from education and many fields of endeavour,'
You must have a different history to me then because you, yourself are ignoring the many achievements of women, Joan of Arc, Xi Ling Shi, Marie Curie, Amelia Erhardt, Florence Nightingale, Golda Meir, Annie Lister, Benazir Bhutto, Boudicca, Elizabeth I, Indira Ghandi, Grace Hopper, Rosa Parks, Helen Keller, Lorrainne Hansberry, Estee Lauder, Angela Morley, Edith Garrud, Eleanor Roosevelt, Emily Roebling, Harriet Beecher Stowe, there are thousands.

Are you getting the picture? You think you can rewrite women out of history by pedalling your version of the truth, but the reality is there are women the length and breadth of the world, who have achieved and are achieving amazing and great things, and by putting your version out here, you are denigrating these very women you claim you are supporting. Please don't speak for me and mine. I am respected by the men in my life. And you will not improve the lot of women by pedalling hate. This woman, and the women I know don't recognise the portrait of cowering women you are depicting. We are lawyers, fire fighters, artists, dentists, judges, scientists, doctors, surgeons, inventors, businesswomen, landlords, computer software designers, bus drivers, soldiers, nurses, engineers, vets and so on and so on . . .

Not just the 75% admissions policy in the 70s, bd - there's a thread on here at the moment about Japanese medical schools fixing the results of their entrance exams to limit the number of women.

MRA blather on the men gangraping a goat thread. They really have neither shame nor sense.

even into my Mum's lifetime: she excelled at technical drawing at school but was told that women could only ever be copyists, not draughts(wo)men

Dh is a draughstman and even now it's still a very male dominated job. I had a friend who had trained to do it and could never get past the interview stage and ended up working in a call centre instead. She'd be about 32 now? So this is all ancient history of course [rolls eyes back a few centuries]

Proudly put forward by Gavin from accounts who has achieved the square root of chuff all as though he’s Alexander the Great besieging the Sogdian Rock.

poor ol Gavin

sigh at men who think they don't benefit from male violence against women and girls.

Most violence is perpetrated by men and women are disadvantaged physically when dealing with it. Women make up most sexual violence victims and uniquely face the risk of pregnancy as a consequence of rape. Sexual harassment is the set of daily reminders to women that we are sexual prey and the most common victims of rape. As a consequence, women have a structural fear of men as a class and fear male violence more than men fear it, despite men often being victims of other men.

Male violence, perpetrated by a minority, benefits all men by deterring women from doing things, meaning more chances for men to do those things:

• A young woman decides not to apply for a late-night job at a petrol station because she doesn't feel safe alone in the petrol station at night and doesn't feel safe walking home in the early hours. What she fears is male violence, sexual and physical. The men who want that job benefit because they do not compete against her when applying.
• Women drop out of tech because of endemic sexual harassment. This benefits men by keeping salaries high and keeping women out of the talent pool, reducing competition for men. This is not a bug but a feature: women have been pushed out of tech for a very long time and the brogrammer culture of sexual harassment and even rape is part of that.
• A man places his bag beside him on a crowded train. A woman, fearing a hostile response if she asks to sit down, says nothing and remains standing. He benefits from the violence perpetrated by other men because she fears him automatically, and so he doesn't have to put his bag on his knee like polite people do.
• A female electrician who works for a hospital is thinking of becoming a sole trader. She realises that this would involve entering people's houses alone and decides to stay at the hospital. She recognises that some men would hire "Jane Smith, Electrician (Part P registered)" because she's female and they are hoping for some kind of reversal of the "washing machine repair man and housewife" porn trope, and she doesn't want that awkwardness and knows that some men react badly to refusal. She is fearing harassment and rape, and men benefit because she does not compete with them for trade in a lucrative market.
• Women are massively underrepresented in the armed forces and sexual harassment of servicewomen is rife. When women leave, or don't even join, it clears the path for men's enlistment and promotion and so men benefit, even though the army as an organisation is harmed.

Basically, any time that a woman decides not to do something, or to stop doing something, because of fear of male violence, men as a class benefit because opportunity is increased for men. I think it was TheBewilderness who said that men give each other constant and enormous positive discrimination by not sexually harassing each other.

On another note, slamming women for not inventing stuff historically deliberately ignores how we were barred from education and many fields of endeavour, even into my Mum's lifetime: she excelled at technical drawing at school but was told that women could only ever be copyists, not draughts(wo)men. A few years later and the Sex Discrimination Act would have protected her ambitions. Oxford University had a 75% male admissions quota until well into the 70s. Pretending that women didn't do engineering and science because we suck at it is a flat lie: the only way men can stop us from achieving is by forcing us out of the field.

Life is cheap in many countries.

I had a male colleague who had worked in a number of developing countries. One day a (adult male ignorant of his own racism and lacking both empathy and insight), made just this comment in a class my colleague and I were teaching.

My colleague looked him in the eye and said, "People in other countries do not value their families and friends any less than we do."

The centuries of colonialism implicit in that statement wavered in the face of a simple truth.

And in fact, the life, even of livestock, in poor villages is not cheap. If you are poor, a healthy goat might be the thing that stands between you and your family going hungry.

Goats give milk, if the kid was female the family gained an additional resource to be used or sold. A male kid might be a source of scarce protein.

The importance of livestock to poor people is why they send vets into disaster zones - because livestock, especially hardy grazers like goats, are vital to people's survival.

Beyond the individual suffering of this one animal, an act of violence has removed a vital resource from a community. The family who own the goat may not have access to the funds to buy another goat.

For those who live in poverty, the burden falls most heavily in women and girls. It's poverty which sees girls sold to sex traffickers and forces women into prostitution.

The life of a goat, which is dismissed as "cheap", may in fact, impose a huge cost on that community.

I love the we built society argument. Proudly put forward by Gavin from accounts who has achieved the square root of chuff all as though he’s Alexander the Great besieging the Sogdian Rock.

You built society? Well you’ve had a few millennia and men are still doing 98% of the Really Bad Shit. You get an F- from me.

Meanwhile the women have been literally Creating All The People and packing lunches for Alexander’s forces. Perhaps it’s time to let us have a crack at it eh? The bar is fairly low, we just have to not do 98% of the violent crime right? I reckon that’s doable, despite us being all unstable and emotional and all.

Massive shame folk seem happier to criticise the thread title, whether it's a suitable thing to talk about, or to prioritise their NAMALT chat; than to show disgust at 8 men who decided to fuck a goat to death.

Good grief.

bd67th

Well said. Think of the total mind fuck we put on girls when men tell them off for wearing clothes that 'ask for it', walk outside on their own etc but then god forbid you say "men are violent" then you can move for the NAMALTS thrown at you.

*also I blatantly stole that from Twitter (but I just love it)

Look around you. What did women as a class create ?

This news report was next to - German parents selling their little boy to male pedophiles, a British policeman raping a little baby and sharing the video with pedophiles and the charging of murder of a midwife to her brother in law. Yes, there are different cultures all across the world but wherever you go there are venal and callous rapists, abusers and murderers who are nearly all to a man, men and all show a complete lack of humanity towards children, women and animals. If you can’t see it, it’s because you refuse to look.