Can Men Be Feminists?

Oh, Sassh, there we go! A full answer on wage inequality with references and everything.

And a pat on your bottom to see you out the door no doubt...

Actually, I think PP is a plant - a feminist masquerading as a paternalistic numpty. No-one can really be this tone deaf?

PP- I think you're supposed to talk about the difficult and dangerous jobs men do now. Then a bit of a pause, and on to family courts. Brief detour round front line soldiers and the need for places for men in domestic abuse refuges-then finishing up with how male suicide rates are feminists' fault.

Now I've saved you all that time, can you "critique" my list?

Sassh

wage inequalities

Come on, gender pay gap? Really?

please advanced search my username to see my thoughts.

So we are not oppressed (please comment on the wage inequalities) but we are unable to search without a of how to do it.

Obviously Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper mean nothing to you, you can advance search Google to find out about them.

Hmm, PP, you mentioned boards using the argument everyone always does: but, but what about the miniscule number of professions which are dominated by females (and generally afforded lower status). But yes, if you are serious, there clearly are areas dominated by one sex or other (usually, frankly, the other ie men). So I'll be generous and give you midwives - but then I would argue that across the whole of the medical profession the representation will be male heavy and should be addressed and not just in those areas which the men have generously ceded to women. Especially as many women are in the broader profession.

BTW, midwives is am appalling example as it an area specifically related to women's health and where women tend to need dignity. Funnily enough though, I don't reckon you'd get the same female dominance in other 'female' areas of medicine. I may be wrong - I'm sure someone knows about representation on gynaegology panels.

You made nonspecific comments about Bechdel which you "nearly" jumped on. But didn't.

I can read your posts, you know and you were asked to go through point by point, but you really haven't answered anything else.

So porn?

of course they can

can you state one belief that a feminist has that a man ca't have? - no

can you sate one thing that feminist does that a man can't do? -no

it is sexist to say men can't be feminist

... and all those British women taken abroad to marry, raped until pregnant then used as a visa mechanism to import a husband?

They just LOVE it 🤦🏻‍♀️

What about those women PP? Do you care about them? Are they oppressed by the system? Many raised objections to their spousal visa and half were ignored by the HOME OFFICE THEMSELVES.

How is that not systematic repression? Answers on a postcard...

It would be easier all round to list that kind of info in your profile.

Yes. A series of bon mots would be super useful and would save us time away from enjoying our overwhelming victim complexes.

...and that prostitutes do the job because they really love sex.

Yeah we are totally secretly enjoying victimhood.
If you believe that you probably believe the orgasms in porn are real.

Over 50% of female prisoners are DV survivors with a head injury.

Female prison inmates subject to 'excessive strip-searching' despite many being victims of sexual abuse

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/female-prison-inmates-strip-searching-sexual-abuse-victims-physical-rape-uk-prisoners-inspectorate-a8172761.html

I'd say that's oppressive and systematic.

Men can't be feminists because their penises insist on taking over conversations among women about men being incapable of feminism.

Q
E
D

It's sad, really.

Perhaps you could organise a small radfem focus group to pitch your posting history to? I have very reasonable daily consultancy rates.

No. Men cannot be feminists.

Men have a vested interest - spoken or unspoken - defended or undefended - complicit or naively oblivious - in upholding the privilege of patriarchy.

My question to a man is this "why would you want to be a feminist? It's crap being oppressed. What can you a man hope to achieve? Do you wanna get laid? Do you wanna get a kick out of being better to women than the other guys? Do you wanna look good to women? Feel better about yourself?

If you want to be a spare part of a movement to dismantle systems that oppress women .... go and hand every bit of cash you own in at a women's refuge? Go and get in the way of the fist of the man punching a woman. Go and hand half your wages to the woman serving you in the coffee shop. Go and tell men who say they are women to stop being entitled assholes. Vote for women. Buy women's books and records exclusively. Watch women directors instead of men. Don't apply for a job if there's a woman applying too. Step aside. Recommend her. Object to the sexist joke when you hear it. Don't watch porn. Tell other men not to watch porn. Don't rape women. Don't touch women if they don't invite the contact. Don't tell women things they already know. Don't steal the words of women. Don't blog your views of women's issues or work.... point people at women who do it better than you. Don't sit on a panel on issues affecting women - insist a woman has the place. Preferably a woman of colour. Acknowledge with grace when women don't want you around. Don't get annoyed when women self-organise. Step aside as women march and applaud."

Sit down as women rise.

You are not a feminist. You just aren't a problematic man. You don't need a t shirt for that.

"trying in every way to construct a narrative where a particular demographic are terribly oppressed and hard done by victims in every conceivable scenario."
Good lord. Where on earth have you been to meet people like that? They must be very tiresome. A bit like MRA. They are tiresome too.

Ooh can I be someone's Muggle? Can I, can I, please, please, please!

It would be easier all round to list that kind of info in your profile.

Could you do the advanced search for us?

I think my biggest observation of a lot of these kind of discussions is that there is a minority of people who spend all their time obsessing over (sexism/racism/patriarchy delete as appropriate) and trying in every way to construct a narrative where a particular demographic are terribly oppressed and hard done by victims in every conceivable scenario.

It feels like this vocal minority really rather enjoy victimhood (real or imagined) and would find their lives existentially meaningless without it. (And the journalists and commentators who live in this world would be considerably poorer without their 'race to the bottom' status as victims.)

please advanced search my username to see my thoughts.

Oh, mate...

'Western women aren't oppressed'.

Says the man complaining of a lack of nuance in debate.

Alice

I've critiqued Bertrand lists before (I think it was Bertrand anyway, the points were very similar, apologies if have her mixed up with someone else) please advanced search my username to see my thoughts.

In summary I don't disagree with every point, but there is an incredible lack of nuance that renders the ones I kind of agree with unworkable.

See me previous posts on this for the detail.

It's always disappointing when a man you're hopeful actually understands and wants to make real changes demonstrates that he really doesn't. I feel high profile men like Justin Trudeau fall into this category.

Ladies! Please stop wanting things all your own way! We've let you vote and go to university! Stop being so silly as to think that you should be on company boards or get paid the same as clever men. And who was the silly fluffy thing who wanted women in films talking to each other?!

You're just oppressing those poor men with all these suggestions they help with the washing up.

Now run along and make some tea, there's a pet.

Patriarchy, slowly now. No-one is oppressing you - especially not women. No-one wants to oppress you. You say you want equality, but it seems that is only as long as it doesn't actually impinge on you, your privilege or anything you enjoy. Bertrand gave you a list which you called ill considered. I'm still dying to know why not using prostitutes or porn or making rape jokes is unreasonable. I'll wait...

This “you feminists would do so much better if you’d just learn to compromise with what men want” thing is always an interesting approach, isn’t it? Condescending offers to help us silly ladies understand how the real world works, with an underlying threat of “and if you don’t do feminism the way men want you to do feminism then your whole movement will crash and burn and you won’t get any of the rights you’re fighting for.”