Can Men Be Feminists?

"Feminist" men seem to think they have an equal say in it to women.

Yes exactly. They demonstrate very clearly that they don’t believe feminism is or should be a movement for women.

I think it’s part of the current backlash against feminism. Outright opposing feminism won’t sell any more - too many people like the gains it’s made for women. So instead the way to oppose it is to undermine it, to say “I’m a feminist, and actually the most feminist thing you can do is support [prostitution/porn/women in general being objectified for men’s entertainment], because [some bollocks about empowerment and agency]”.

Men can hold feminist views, work towards feminist ideals, be feminist allies. But feminism is necessarily a movement led by women. If men started to lead it it would become just another method by which men control women, and if men enter it at all then they will quickly start to lead it because that is the nature of gendered power relations as currently structured.

Like others I know men who could feasibly describe themselves as feminists but they don't.

So when a male describes himself as a feminist you get a small blast of misogyny, sexism, male entitlement and privilege in one. It makes me really uncomfortable that there are these young men claiming it. It is very arrogant. Decent men are supportive of women and girls and they work on themselves. They say things like 'I support feminism' or 'I do what I can, but i'll never really know what it's like to be a woman' etc.

Totally agree. I am wary of any man who styles himself a feminist. Men who are genuinely supportive are happy with the ally label in my experience. "Feminist" men seem to think they have an equal say in it to women. So if we are "trans exclusionary" and "SWERFs" they can pompously scold us about it and tell us we're not feministing correctly as if it's up to them.

I have never known a man who didn't at some point display:

Anger, resentment, contempt for women as a group (misogyny)

and/or

Enthusiasm about women being commoditised into exploitable, disposable units for their convenience (sexism, male entitlement)

and/or

Crass, insensitive ignorance about the impact male dominance, male violence, cultural misogyny and sexism has upon women and girls choices, decisions, life experience, realistic expectations and self-perception (male privilege)

So when a male describes himself as a feminist you get a small blast of misogyny, sexism, male entitlement and privilege in one. It makes me really uncomfortable that there are these young men claiming it. It is very arrogant. Decent men are supportive of women and girls and they work on themselves. They say things like 'I support feminism' or 'I do what I can, but i'll never really know what it's like to be a woman' etc.

So can a man be a feminist? No. But a decent and supportive person - yes.

Black rights, clearly

A shockingly large number of self declared male feminists turned out to be sexual predators.

And they seem to only talk, never listen. And tell women about feminism.

I had a little run in on here years ago about race and the Canadian elections. I was wrong; the poster of colour was right. It took me a little while to realise that. Because racism, like sexism, is internalised. And it must be examined honestly all the time. If I said, "I'm a Back rights champion" that would be nonsense. I try, I get it wrong a lot.

Men can say that they try, that they want to listen, that they are open to being told how to make things better. But I immediately get suspicious when they say they are feminists.

No.

See recent and historic "male feminists" who use that fiction to mask abuse and misogyny.

I actually fluctuate on this. In some ways, I think men can have feminist values, respect women, and vote for feminist causes. I think male support is important, politically, and valued.
But I don't really trust the self-ascribed "male feminists." Because many of them just seem to adopt the label as a way to mark themselves out as "not like the cr*p ones" and there's can be a weird psychological thing that tends to play out. Like they try to take over feminist spaces and speak OVER or FOR women, not WITH women - and then they want a pat on the head and a cookie for being so wonderful. There's an entitlement that comes with it, like virtue signalling. Another reason I couldn't stand with liberal feminism in its current state now.
The sexes are different. I am not going to start calling myself an activist speaking on behalf of male issues, even though I might ally with males who want to fight for better paternity leave/safer working conditions/better male prison conditions/etc.

This is going to sound really bad, but I sometimes feel more comfortable around a man with clear religious views that I can pin down, rather than some of the new "male feminists."

No, I do not believe they can. The reason I say this is because to us, there are common experiences, genuine fears and such, that men cannot understand.

I only became aware of what was going on 3 months ago and it has altered my perception of a lot of things that have happened and the instinctive reaction I had to these experiences. To compare them to how a man would react, the differences between our socialisation became clear. At first my husband was all to happy to hear about it and discuss these matters. Then other stuff happened and it was boring and old news. And there in lies the problem. A woman can't ignore it and move on, as it affects her directly, a man can, just as soon as it is no longer convenient.

In answer to your question, no. Many have tried and most have failed. A shockingly large number of self declared male feminists turned out to be sexual predators.
So far in my 72 years of life I have met one man I would agree was a feminist, even though he does not call himself one.

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.

“Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy in behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are. They all have the same vulnerability to rape, to battery, as children to incest. Poorer women have more vulnerability to prostitution, which is basically a form of sexual exploitation that is intolerable in an egalitarian society, which is the society we are fighting for.”
― Andrea Dworkin

I'm genuinely unsure of this myself. DP, DD1 and I were talking about feminism the other night and DP asked if men could be feminists. Instinctively, in unison, Dd1 said yes, and I said no.

My gut reaction was that a man could support feminism as an idea and an ideal, but to claim the label of 'feminist' seemed to me a bit white-knightish, a man steeped in the privilege of Patriarchy who would undoubtedly enjoy a certain amount of further privilege as a rescuing member of the feminist group.

I base this on the behaviour of so many brocialist types who call themselves feminists and then use their 'authority' to boss women around with impunity.

I'm happy to be corrected on this, though.