"Obsession with gender identity goes too far -Times article"

I also wondered about the lack of comments but they're now coming through. I think a moderator had this on their to-do list and is only now going through the comments to see which can go up.

"they don't want any more than respect" says the comment.

Ha ha ha, what a big fat lie.

We offered them respect, they demanded capitulation

"but all they want is respect" NOPE.

The first comment almost certainly is from one of the Mumsnet TRAs.

Great article... thoughtful and compassionate but firm.

Excellent article. His point about national identity made me think that in so much today, we are being asked to "pick a side" (all those referenda!) and are reduced to a narrowing set of criteria based on artificial or historical constructs. Yet the one area in human lives which is binary - sex - we are told is illusory. And then, having supposedly rejected the constraints of biology, these individuals conform to narrow outmoded expressions of gender and are unable to see that by picking a miniscule spot on their rainbow spectrum and doggedly reinforcing all the stereotypes, they are the worst sort of conservative and not the freedom warriors they clearly imagine themselves to be.

Canadian car insurance link (wouldn't apply here, of course, cheaper insurance for women was deemed discriminatory)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man-changes-his-gender-to-get-cheaper-car-insurance-m3kqlvf3l?shareToken=443d34d580161e3c21f4d0d63c0bd864

Excellent piece - No comments yet on the Times site at the moment. Also looking to see if the Times Facebook account has a link (comments on fb can be interesting) and couldn't find it. It did have a link to this article though. (Sorry I can't make a share token)

Damn. If the Times keep this up, I’ll have to subscribe.

Thanks OP. I really enjoyed reading that.

Exactly Errol. I read the articles about the girls and women are ignored when they try to stop their abusers getting visas, and think "tell me again how TWAW.".

Reading things like this makes me think there's a definite hint of change in the air. People are beginning to wake up!

Of course if you spend an hour on Twitter reading the fawning comments to Madigan or Harrop you get the opposite impression.. but in general, I'm feeling more hopeful these days that we can reverse the trend of unquestioning support for trans' demands and the correlating stamp of bigot for those of us pointing out biological truths.

I'm starting to wonder how long organisations like the BBC can hold on to their blind no-questions asked, affirmative stance when more and more intelligent voices are raising really excellent questions like that.

This is the crux of the problem facing us - people look at the gender debate and think ‘but I don’t care’ and because they don’t care whether someone wants to call themselves bigender, poly gender, a gender or whatever they don’t engage enough to realise how the rights, dignity and safety of women and girls are being undermined.

Great article. Very succinct as well.

It's a good, clear piece.

The main headline article in The Times today is on another matter which frankly puts all this gender identity snowflakery in the shade - forced marriages. I started a thread with links to the main and supplementary pieces if anyone wants to read them (I can hardly bear to myself TBH). Don't want to derail this thread just let people know it's there.

I’m starting to feel more positive about this. I want a balanced and constructive argument and women’s rights to be taken seriously not rigged consultations and talk shows.

As to the ‘it never happens’ argument my feeling is that examples are now coming up of actually ‘it does happen’. That people who do want to access single sex spaces for the wrong reasons are using this as a cloak to do so and examples are starting to be published. I wish people could understand nuance in arguments and saying this does not mean I think transmen or transwomen want to harass people. I don’t. It feels like a knee jerk reaction to block this argument completely.

Great piece - cuts through all the flannel and histrionics.

Bang on.

Agreed. A commendably clear article. Looking forwards to the comments.

Loved that! Thanks for sharing.

There are plenty of people out there who are in urgent need of our help — from the millions of older people who live alone in Britain to Syrians at the wrong end of Assad’s merciless stick. In their light, obsessing about the social recognition of elusive transgender identities does look awfully like fiddling with our navels while Rome burns.

Yes! Beautifully put.