Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Single sex areas - petition

58 replies

Mxyzptlk · 02/08/2018 00:28

Sex-segregated areas - a petition to keep them sex-segregated -

www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-keep-sex-segregated-areas-sex-segregated

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Rufustheyawningreindeer · 04/08/2018 19:42

Long time ago someone i know said

Dont worry...i wont kill myself

Which made me worry...cos it didn't occur to me that they would have such a thought!!

So yeah, that poster has the same effect on me

Poster SA says....There is nothing to worry about.....shit now im fucking terrified!!!

ReluctantCamper · 04/08/2018 18:39

well it did cross my mind that MNHQ might find that poster's input as annoying and frankly wilfully misleading as I do......

Actually that poster has regularly spurred me into activism

when they talk down and belittle a crowdfunder it reminds me to donate

when they explain how we're all idiots and single sex spaces don't exist and we shouldn't have them anyway it makes me get off my arse and sign the petition

I am not sure their input has the effect they're hoping for.....

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 04/08/2018 18:33

It does

I like to think its because mumsnet mod looked at the report and thought

Harsh but fair

And left it Grin

ReluctantCamper · 04/08/2018 18:28

mmm Rufus

moderation policy seems to have changed quite a bit over the last few weeks......

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 04/08/2018 17:55

will be removed for breach of guidelines

Interesting that the post wasn't removed...

OldCrone · 04/08/2018 17:53

SarahAr you also missed off this paragraph

13.59 Service providers should be aware that where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from a non-transsexual person of that gender, they should normally be treated according to their acquired gender, unless there are strong reasons to the contrary.

A transwoman with a penis in a changing room is not indistinguishable from a woman.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/servicescode_0.pdf

mimivanne · 04/08/2018 16:36

Thanks OP , signed

Wanderabout · 04/08/2018 10:13

Yes, tell me why my daughters, who are 13 and 11, should be forced into having someone with a penis in their swimming pool showers, ( or school changing rooms as has happened in the US ) ? We have sex segregation for a reason. To protect women and girls from voyeurism , intimidation and abuse.

Exactly.

We have single sex spaces for things like changing because the vast majority of women and girls don't want to undress in front of males or see males naked.

The school changing rooms problem has already happened in Scotland.

TerfsUp · 04/08/2018 09:32

Or a predatory male pretending to be a transwoman?

Oh, that would never happen. All transwomen are sweet liddle lambs who are members of the most oppressed group in the history of the world.

Mxyzptlk · 03/08/2018 23:36

Trans women without penises are still biologically men.

OP posts:
Ucantarguewistupid · 03/08/2018 19:51

Absolutely no problem with tans men in spaces. They are after all biologically women.

Penis owners however are not acceptable in single sex places

SirVixofVixHall · 03/08/2018 19:43

Yes, tell me why my daughters, who are 13 and 11, should be forced into having someone with a penis in their swimming pool showers, ( or school changing rooms as has happened in the US ) ?
We have sex segregation for a reason. To protect women and girls from voyeurism , intimidation and abuse.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 03/08/2018 18:57

The situation can't be completely clear cut

Well put.

The key reason being that self ID changes the situation.

Up until now there has been a polite system in place for decades that everyone was discreet and fine about it and those who had dysphoria and transitioned to the point of looking the opposite sex just quietly used the opposite sex provision. No problems. Particularly since the massive majority of transsexual people using women's facilities were in orientation gay male.

Then came transgenderism ideology and self ID which put forward the idea that no visible transition was necessary and some women have beards and penises, no gender dysphoria was necessary, that men who are autogynephilic and who enjoy cross dressing, and who make up much greater numbers than the transsexual population with GRCs and are straight men in orientation, were as valid to use women's facilities as a transsexual person with full reassignment surgery, and that men were women if they said they were. And women needed to know their place, and get on with enabling this. And self ID should be any bloke who feels like it walking into any woman's space unchallenged, since by the act of walking in he has self declared his choice of identity and it is unacceptable to expect him to go through any gatekeeping procedures.

At that point, many women stopped willing to be polite and to do this on a good will basis. People like Miranda Yardley who have been part of that transsexual population for years, have been pointing out from the start that genuinely dysphoric and transsexual people are going to suffer if women are forced to draw hard lines about who and who cannot be in their spaces.

Sarahconnor1 · 03/08/2018 18:52

I also think a transwomen who deliberately exposes her penis is likely to be causing the offence of exposure

This would require women and children to be victims of indecent exposure. I don't know about anyone else but I would prefer safeguarding to prevent this in the first place.

Mxyzptlk · 03/08/2018 18:44

a transwomen who deliberately exposes her penis is a man. Women don't do that.

OP posts:
Waddlelikeapenguin · 03/08/2018 18:40

SarahAr
I don't think it is ok for mothers of young girls to see a penis in the changing room. I think it is entirely possible for transwomen who have a penis not to expose it - perhaps by using a cubicle.
I also think a transwomen who deliberately exposes her penis is likely to be causing the offence of exposure

Open plan changing room (yes these do exist my 10 yr old daughter uses 2 different ones frequently), what is the difference between naked person with penis (sigh) drying themselves & naked person with penis exposing themselves?
And why should my daughter have to see either?

Mxyzptlk · 03/08/2018 18:39

If, as women we are fighting to keep biological males out of womens only spaces-does that in turn mean we have to accept all biological females into womens spaces? (even if they present as a bearded man.)

If they present like that, but want to enter a female space, they surely wouldn't be too surprised to be asked for proof of being female.

The situation can't be completely clear cut, because of people who can pass as the opposite sex / gender stereotype.

OP posts:
ZuttZeVootEeVro · 03/08/2018 18:28

One point was raised though which made me ponder. If, as women we are fighting to keep biological males out of womens only spaces-does that in turn mean we have to accept all biological females into womens spaces? (even if they present as a bearded man.)

Why? Most transmen want to be in male spaces, and most men are ok with transmen in male spaces (their insistence or silence about male transpeople in women's spaces would be insincere otherwise).

But I personally have no issue with any female in female spaces.

OrchidInTheSun · 03/08/2018 18:08

happydappy - have you met any transmen? It's pretty obvious they're women, especially when they take their clothes off ...

happydappy2 · 03/08/2018 17:40

I’m not sure I’d feel ok about a trans man getting changed in a womens changing room as would be very confusing for kids-and how would we be sure they weren’t an effeminate man? This just gets more confusing....

VickyEadie · 03/08/2018 17:21

I'm fine with transmen in my changing rooms.

OrchidInTheSun · 03/08/2018 17:03

Oh and importantly he didn't have a penis!

OrchidInTheSun · 03/08/2018 17:03

I am perfectly happy to have transmen in my space. I was on the train with one yesterday. He didn't look, smell or act like a man

Knicknackpaddyflak · 03/08/2018 16:46

The issue isn't people looking male, (gender identity), the issue is a penis (sex category). In women's prisons for example there is no question of transmen being transferred to the male estate no matter how male they look, because their safety could absolutely not be guaranteed.

This is where third spaces/gender neutral spaces come in. Transmen and transwomen should absolutely not have to change or be vulnerable to embarrassment or harassment in public spaces. Equally women should absolutely not have to change or be vulnerable to embarrassment, harassment, assault, rape and murder, by being forced to admit anyone with a penis into their spaces.

longtimelurkingtrans · 03/08/2018 16:44

Signed but chose the option of not displaying who I am.