Danish ban on the burqa comes into effect today

Your neighbour is sending out a visible signal to the world and her daughters that she thinks women must cover up and be modest. I'm not interested in how lovely her cooking and smiling might be given how offensive I find that notion.

Can't help but feel this is more to do with the rise of the right that freeing up women from oppression. OK through their conditioning they may wear it, unless I see the research that evidences that the women who will be most affected by this are agreeable I will believe that it's repressive. More thugs will feel entitled to target groups who refuse to comply. It's not good however you spin it

Funny you should ask though. I do have X ray vision. With my X ray vision I can see the harm cigarettes do inside people's bodies.

I am trying to disarm with humour

Lass

I look at her eyes. She says hello. Her eyes move in the way eyes do when one smiles

You know.... smiling

Where is the limit to any government dictating women's garb? Is it just burqua?
Festival masks are not uncommon and yet they would appear to be in violation of a law prohibiting covering the face.

I am quibbling out of ignorance.

That would give no information on the laws about mask wearing on the public streets, but nice try, thanks
Actually it may well do. It may well be the Danish equivalent of Scots law breach of the peace, but clearly even if not illegal it is socially unacceptable.

Why should a religious full face mask get a free pass?

I'll tell my neighbour's daughter, who greets me every morning with a smile

Do you have x- ray vision? How do you know they are smiling?

Wearing a niqab which fully hides the face is a display of religious extremism with which I am not interested in engaging. I would have nothing in common with a woman who thinks it is normal and acceptable to hide her face.

Why not test that out? Try going into a bank or a shop or a pub in Copenhagen wearing a mask which completely hides your face and see how long it takes before you are asked to remove it/ leave/ or the police are called.

That would give no information on the laws about mask wearing on the public streets, but nice try, thanks.

No placemats. Just familiar with Denmark and its politics.

I have my own, personal views on the niqab and burka.

But Denmark time and time again manages to be a spectacularly racist country. Which is a shame because it's my heritage and I bloody love the place.

Lass

Blimey.

I'll tell my neighbour's daughter, who greets me every morning with a smile and brings food over during Ramadan and chats to me about our kids

I’m sure that’s true but I don’t want to be party of a society where it is deemed normal for women to cover their faces because their faces are ‘immodest’, that their faces must be hidden from male neighbours, male colleagues and male friends. That is so divisive, insulting and depressing

I agree. And tbh I have no interest in interacting with or making an effort to get to know or understand women who think it is acceptable or reasonable for women to hide their faces.

I agree Maisy

Transplants

I’m sure that’s true but I don’t want to be party of a society where it is deemed normal for women to cover their faces because their faces are ‘immodest’, that their faces must be hidden from male neighbours, male colleagues and male friends. That is so divisive, insulting and depressing.

DonkeySkin
I have already said I would happily have a requirement that access to some service means showing your face. I also think that it is perfectly reasonable for employers to say face coverings are not permitted in the workplace where there's a big focus on interpersonal relationship building.

I don't believe that a woman's dress should be in the hands of the state, whether that is forcing women to be fully covered with a mesh over their eyes or being told they cannot choose to wear a certain item.

Previously I was in favour of a ban on facial coverings. Then I saw that woman in France being told her swimwear wasn't ok because it was too modest (essentially a hooded wetsuit) and seeing that changed my mind. I'd rather there was a push on education and women's rights and women making informed decisions than banning an item of clothing so people can feel smug about how they've apparnetly reduced women from oppression by removing an item of clothing.

"Have they outlawed all mask wearing in public or just masks worn for religious purposes?*

Why not test that out? Try going into a bank or a shop or a pub in Copenhagen wearing a mask which completely hides your face and see how long it takes before you are asked to remove it/ leave/ or the police are called.

I've had no trouble interacting with women wearing the niqab. Neighbours, mothers of kids I work with. effort is required

An articulate informed woman who chooses the niqab - well, she's made the wrong choice.

Yes, she has. She has made a choice to adopt an extremely antisocial form of dress, which prevents others from interacting with her in a normal way. She is choosing to be rude by insisting on hiding her face during all social interactions, and further insisting that other people pretend there isn't something completely weird and discomforting about trying to interact with a faceless person.

FWIW I don't believe that most women who adopt the niqab or burqa in the West are being forced to do so. I believe the burqa defenders when they say that most are choosing to wear it. But their personal choice in this case infringes on other people, by violating the usual rules of social discourse and inflicting discomfort on others. It's reasonable to ask that these women make a different choice, in order to adhere to the basic norms of the society in which they choose to live.

To go nicely with other posters comparing women to tents

I didn't say that- - one can have no idea who is underneath a burqa, niqab.

I see a situation where people are of the view that female choices are only valued if they are choices that align with their idea of liberation, hence why it's pick n mix on religious clothing and face coverings

Nope , not all. I oppose the wearing of clothes which hide the wearers' face. ..

“ I do worry that a burqa/niqab will further legitimize anti-Islamic sentiment.”

I worry about this too but, on balance, still support the ban.

Unfortunately many will see it as victimisation of certain communities. I don’t know how that could be prevented.

There was a brilliant post earlier in this thread about giving a voice to the nany muslim women who are campaigning against face covering. That is the way forward in my view.

Banning the face veil won’t change deeply misogynistic values overnight but they will send a strong message that those values are not acceptable in our society.

Confining observant women to their homes by law is cruel, in my opinion.

Have they outlawed all mask wearing in public or just masks worn for religious purposes?