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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surprise! The Masons now welcome Transwomen but not women

110 replies

Indierockandroll · 01/08/2018 07:53

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6013141/Freemasons-break-tradition-allow-women-join-brotherhood-born-male.html

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 02/09/2018 10:41

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3352843-First-there-was-Jess-Bradley-then-the-Challenors-now-Edward-Lord?watched

OP PimmsnLemonade wrote:

"No direct accusations against Edward Lord (the 'non-binary' freemason who is trying to remove single-sex spaces in London) but here he is describing as a "hero" a man who was a member of the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) and is a continuing "advocate" for paedophiles:

twitter.com/edwardlord/status/958632082762321922

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10948796/Paedophilia-is-natural-and-normal-for-males.html "

Additional threads re BACP Best Practice Guide written by Lord's partener Dr Meg-John Barker, currently under review following criticism:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3350668-The-British-Asscoicatuon-for-Counselling-and-Psychotherapy-have-come-up-with-Definition-of-woman

TerfsUp · 03/08/2018 08:09

The issue is that women are not permitted, that is what we should be fighting about.

Anyone who tells me what I should and should not be fighting about can fuck off.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 02/08/2018 13:08

Great Monty Python clip!

LaSquirrel · 02/08/2018 12:14

I look forward to seeing the TRA protests outside lodges for their literal violence Of misgendering.

Yeah, me too!

And none of them would survive the MN FWR forum rules either.

This classic clip, rather timely (again) I think.

R0wantrees · 02/08/2018 08:09

There are different lodges though aren't there? So some are more political / influential and others more social or like the rotary club?

Guardian article Feb 2018:
'Two Freemasons' lodges set up at Westminster are continuing to operate
Integrity or influence? Inside the world of modern Freemasons'

(extract)
Two Freemasons’ lodges set up more than 80 years ago for members of parliament and political journalists are continuing to operate, the Guardian has learned.

New Welcome Lodge, which set up to recruit MPs, peers and parliamentary staff, and Gallery Lodge, established for members of the political press corps known as the lobby, both remain active, according to Freemasonry records (continues)

David Staples, the chief executive of the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE), the governing body for Freemasons in England and Wales, said there was no contradiction between the practice of journalism and membership of Freemasonry.

“Contrary to populist perception, being a Freemason helps those members in roles serving society in the broader sense, including journalists, politicians, policemen and lawyers, to be better in those jobs by encouraging them to act as better people themselves. Their membership is a positive for both them as individuals, and for society at large,” he said.

More Freemasons would declare their membership, he added, if they did not fear prejudice and discrimination: “There should be no conflict between an individual choosing whether to declare their membership or not with that individual’s ability to do their job well. But there is, because some choose to believe otherwise, and some of our detractors are doing so based on nothing other than blind prejudice.”

The disclosure that both journalists and politicians are Freemasons comes after the outgoing chair of the Police Federation alleged that Freemasons were blocking reforms in policing and thwarting the progress of women and officers from black and minority ethnic communities.

After three years as the chair of the Police Federation, Steve White said: “I found that there were people who were fundamentally against any kind of change and any kind of progress, and they always happened to be Freemasons.” (continues)

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/04/two-freemasons-lodges-operating-secretly-at-westminster

its worth considering closely the wording of the Freemason's answers as it is with regards the GRA

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 02/08/2018 07:58

I look forward to seeing the TRA protests outside lodges for their literal violence Of misgendering.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/08/2018 07:48

The last section of Janice Turner's column in The Times today is about this

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-was-the-worst-leader-miliband-or-cameron-k2j8kkk60?shareToken=9f09415312427a7e839747199dbb23bf

(And another of their comment pieces is by Nigel Biggar on identity, there's another thread about that)

EntropicTupperwareDrawer · 02/08/2018 07:12

That's interesting, thank you for the insight, puppies

The whole thing is heads we win, tails you lose for the fecking patriarchy though BIG SURPRISE.

I keep reading "Ed Lord" as "Edgelord", which actually makes a lot of sense Grin

womanformallyknownaswoman · 02/08/2018 04:09

Bloody Masons - it's time they were disbanded

R0wantrees · 02/08/2018 01:48

There are different lodges though aren't there? So some are more political / influential and others more social or like the rotary club?

Indierockandroll · 02/08/2018 00:22

Will the transwomen use the male toilets there? Will new ones be built?

OP posts:
AsAProfessionalFekko · 01/08/2018 23:46

Will it be pink and sparkly?

UpstartCrow · 01/08/2018 23:44

Can we have our own lodge?

AsAProfessionalFekko · 01/08/2018 23:43

But they will be addressed at meetings as Brother Mary, which I suspect won't go down well.

If they are women, as some profess I'd the case, how does this work then? It's a mens club isn't it?

LaSquirrel · 01/08/2018 23:40

NothingOn
"Vera Baird, who as Labour’s solicitor general was involved in drafting the legislation, says: “We obviously looked with bared teeth at the prospect of getting rid of them [all-male gentlemen’s clubs].” However, very quickly they saw that this could not be done without also forcing a parallel ban of women’s swimming clubs or gay choirs."

Interestingly, the woman's swimming clubs and the gay choirs are/ soon will be, no more. The "gentlemens" clubs remain.

Yes, rather interesting, isn't it?

LaSquirrel · 01/08/2018 23:37

Well this is a right mess, innit?
If the FM don't really believe TWAW, why should we?

The hypocrisy by the FM is fairly evident, considering they do have female chapters, the 'solution' could have been that TW once the don the frock, shove them into Pink Ghetto Lodges.

So is this move more about 'we are losing so many members that want to get their frock on, what can we do?'. Because that is how it reads.

As usual though, it is a bit coy on the 'surgery' part, given most trans of either sex don't actually have the genital surgery. Sure, the more committed 'transmen' have the double mastectomy, so could pass the breast-baring part of the programme, but a number (not all) of TW would not for the same reason. The whole point of the breast baring is to prove you are not a female in drag.

I doubt that there would be many TM invited to become members, given the invitation system.

HeresIdea852 · 01/08/2018 17:50

Actually this should be flipped. If you want a GRC and are a Mason then that should be an automatic No as you haven't been living as a woman attending your boys own club.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 01/08/2018 17:34

Puppies you were on oestrogen enough to have grown breasts when you joined?

Didn't they notice when they did the stabbing thing?

How long does it take for oestrogen to make you grow boobs- not a while?

Sorry for all the questions!

NothingOnTellyAgain · 01/08/2018 17:31

Couldn't Joanne self ID back to a man for the application and joining then return to being a woman once joined?

gendercritter · 01/08/2018 17:25
Grin
SimonBridges · 01/08/2018 16:42

Because obviously being a woman you need to wear a skirt. Otherwise you're not a woman.

That’s it. I put some trousers on once and my vulva fell off.

SimonBridges · 01/08/2018 16:41

That makes perfect sense.
So John can join and then become Joanne, but if Joanne wanted to join they couldn’t.

Gncq · 01/08/2018 16:32

A frequently-asked-questions document attached to the policy explains that lodges must permit members who have transitioned to female an alternative to the usual dress codes, such as a smart dark skirt and top

Because obviously being a woman you need to wear a skirt. Otherwise you're not a woman.

puppiesnotpatriarchy · 01/08/2018 16:29

Trans women aren't allowed to join if they're out as trans, they're considered women and it's a fraternity. They're only allowed to remain in if they're a trans woman who came out as trans after joining, and even then you're very heavily encouraged to leave but they can't just outright say that. If that makes sense? :)

SimonBridges · 01/08/2018 16:18

Interesting stuff Puppies.
So transwoman, transmen and men can join the Masons.
Just not women then.

But transwomen are women so if transwoman are allowed to join then we are saying that they aren’t women and are different to women.

So which is it?

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