Labour councillor quits in row over facilities for trans people - The Times

Well, yes, an enormous change of life, possibly involving surgery and hormones, from a position of some social privilege and likely physical advantage, which will then confer some access to certain spaces which exist for the safety and dignity of the vulnerable - why, in the name of Vlod, would anyone think that there shouldn't be some pretty damn intense gatekeeping for that?!

Also the suggestion that complex medical diagnosis is, well, lengthy and complex shouldn't be a massive surprise.

Many people are affected by such things and to be honest from my POV 2 years is nothing. It took me 10 years of red tape and assessment to get an autism diagnosis and support for my child and I still have to fight to get that support applied correctly. My case is far from unusual too, many parents, children and adults are let down by the system.

Two years doesn't seem an unreasonable amount of time to spend assessing and treating something that is majorly life changing.

2 single consultations is no where near enough for a man to be able to enter female only spaces. I would prefer multiple consultations, at least a year of discussions with a psychology exploring gender stereotypes and alternatives to the trans lifestyle AND genital surgery before males get near female spaces. Yes I want it to be very difficult.

@Bowlofbabelfish

How wouldn’t that be medical gatekeeping?

Diagnoses for GD don’t grow on magic gender trees.

If a patient is on the NHS route it will involve seeing two different Gender specialists at least twice, months apart, before a diagnosis is delivered and hormones are prescribed (to which their own GP has to agree to shared care with the GIC).

It’s also worth pointing out that not all patients referred to GICs get diagnosed - hence this is gatekeeping.

If the patient is progressing onto SRS that’s at least another two consultations followed by a consultation with the surgeon.
This process, not including initial wait times can take upwards of two years.

If you’ve spent all that time seeing medical professionals face to face and have their written diagnoses and paperwork then why should a panel who have never met you decide if you are ‘trans enough’???

Single sex spaces and services have already passed the litmus test to be able to exist under The Equality Act. They exist because they are needed.

Anyone with a shred of empathy would recognise that.

I totally agree with this. We see you, TRAs.

Oh, I'm just being testy. I think I have something to say but by the time I have scrolled past all the nonsense and nonsense-indulging, I just can't be arsed. Ignore me moaning.

Sorry Lang

Wider society and the people I interact with give me a different opinion.

They're not likely to say "nah they're all blokes" to you though are they?

Yeah, let's not get derailed. AGAIN.

Let's talk to each other instead.

Saying 'transwomen are women' is like saying 'men can be women'

That's exactly what it's saying.

In the context of Self-ID it is saying 'men are women if they say they are'

They really don't. It's all just thoughtless structural sexism, virtue signalling and risk aversion. Promise. Only 18% of people in this country as polled by Pink News support self ID.

Quite. It's only got this far with smoke threats and mirrors oh no this won't affect women or girls oh look over there a post-op transexual! Shut up you transphobe.

Not working any more.

Tryingtolisten2

"What protected category is being removed?

To quote Penny Mordaunt:

Trans women are women, that is the starting point [and trans men are men].

I can listen. You can listen. Doesn’t mean we’ll ever agree. But lots of people outside the MN bubble, including major employers, Health Care Providers, Government officials and Opposition officials do agree with the Minister’s statement."

May I invite you to the council estate on which I live in the Black Country so that you can explain to the women and men here that the category of woman doesn't exist since it is now synonymous with men [and vice versa] .. that there is no such thing as biological sex .. that men do not produce sperm and that women do not produce ova ... that men can become pregnant [which will be astonishing news to every Black Country male in my neighbourhood, I am sure.

Please let me know when you can visit and I will organise a public meeting so that you can educate the adults in my Black Country neighbourhood. Thanks.

And it’s just your opinion people really don’t agree trans women are women (or trans men are men) Wider society and the people I interact with give me a different opinion.

But transwomen are clearly not women. Women are people who were born female. A woman cannot be a transwoman, because transwomen are people who were born male.

Saying 'transwomen are women' is like saying 'men can be women'.

Single sex spaces and services have already passed the litmus test to be able to exist under The Equality Act. They exist because they are needed.

Anyone with a shred of empathy would recognise that.

I think medical gatekeeping should stay but the medical panel should be removed and trans people should be able to present at least two written diagnosis from recognised gender specialists. It should just be an admin job to verify the documents are real.

That wouldn’t be medical gatekeeping then would it? It’d be administrative.

@Ereshkigal the YouGov poll carried out for Pink News didn’t ask if people disagreed with self-ID as a concept but the demedicalisation aspect of it.

If I’d been polled i’d have also disagreed - see my earlier post - I think medical gatekeeping should stay but the medical panel should be removed and trans people should be able to present at least two written diagnosis from recognised gender specialists. It should just be an admin job to verify the documents are real.

And it’s just your opinion people really don’t agree trans women are women (or trans men are men) Wider society and the people I interact with give me a different opinion.

Not the brightest, some of them.

Yes, Ereshkigal, Lily isn't the only one reeled in and left looking like a twat. A really scary cultic 'expel the unbelievers' kind of twat.

Charlie Caine didn't clock it either while frothing about why women who believe in biology haven't all been expelled from labour yet.

Oh dear, poor Lily! Sounds so naive in that trust for Jeremy.

True words said in jest...

Tanith, it's a satire account. The fact that Lily didn't clock it is because they looked at the momentum avatar and just accepted it (and didn't read the tweets properly). Lily is much more diligent when critical tweeters have a female avatar and will check their mentions and so on for 'transphobia'.

Because essentially, Lily is both credulous and doesn't like women.

I used to love Citizen Smith

'Youll be first against the wall come the revolution'

I saw that, too, Popchyk

Is that really a typo, or are Surbiton telling Lily how it's going to be, come the revolution?

Tryingtolisten2 and SarahAr have nailed their colours very firmly to the mast on this thread. Saves time and effort.

I can listen. You can listen. Doesn’t mean we’ll ever agree. But lots of people outside the MN bubble, including major employers, Health Care Providers, Government officials and Opposition officials do agree with the Minister’s statement.

They really don't. It's all just thoughtless structural sexism, virtue signalling and risk aversion. Promise. Only 18% of people in this country as polled by Pink News support self ID.