Jess Bradley, suspended - Part II

and any other lurkers, please don't be discouraged from posting or reading here.

Yes but please bear in mind that risks that women that have gone before you have put themselves and their families under - some have put their lives on the line, their jobs, careers, have faced up to masked men, attended meetings that have been threatened with bombs, stood up in court - in order to talk about this, make videos about this, and generally keep the evidence of the toxicity of men at the top of the agenda.

Salient points timelady

And yes @Ninon - stick around :-)

Some of us have been here for quite a while and at times can feel quite battle weary - I've been there myself.

Once the scales have fallen from your eyes it's hard at times to remember when you also were blind, as it were.

I have posted the patently bleeding obvious many many times just to get my own thinking straight.

Oh, me too.

Ninon (and any other lurkers), please don't be discouraged from posting or reading here. I only found this Mumsnet board via a Spectator link - even if you know it's here, it's not that easy to find, hidden away in the menu choices.

the internet is awash with photos and cartoons of men with huge breasts and erect penises.

It is, and despite trying to avoid it, I can't help coming across them. I wonder if putting them on a thread with clear trigger warnings would be an idea. It does help accelarate the peak trans process when you witness of un-dysphoric these men are

perhaps can't deal with the "alpha maleneness

I see repeated evidence of toxic masculinity having had a big role in causing this massive swell of identity crises. Men transitioning in late teens and adulthood having had no childhood dysphoria are very often men who would have been the bottom of the pecking order amongst other men and would have suffered self esteem issues around meeting those standards/ competing for girlfriends/ dealing with all the deluge of imagery around what men and women should look like. They never challenge men, no matter what those men do, but radiate a powerful belief that they are a superior class to biological women and have the right to dictate to them, be in charge and demand service (and sex in some cases.) . It's all about the power hierarchy, the man kicks the cat so the cat bites the rat and the rat bites the fleas etc.

A transman colleague has very strong internalised views about the inferiority of women: for example perceives all male staff as superior and of higher authority than female staff, even if they are in the same or higher managerial roles. At gut level, they believe women are less than men. Their transition followed child abuse and heavy anxiety, it's not difficult to see why they wanted to escape being a woman who has no power and no authority, and to be one of the people in life who is safer, has power, has authority, has control. Although sadly they demonstrate constantly that inside they still perceive themselves as lesser than and owing loyalty and service to males. Transition is doing very little to make them any happier.

@TransplantsArePlants

Yes I agree with you.

The whole "transphobia" label is thrown like shit at a wall to make sure some of it sticks.

It's only when you start looking at whose "muck spreading" that you start to realise that most are simply re-cycling their own excrement.

Yes, me too.

I have posted the patently bleeding obvious many many times just to get my own thinking straight. I am relatively new to this too. I am sure it's frustrated a few people

Stick around Ninon

I wonder if Penny Mordaunt is having a bit of a think now The adoption of the Yoguatawa principles could do with a review too

As far as I'm concerned Ninon you're welcome and it's good to see you here.

Ninon
A lot of people trying to get their heads around the wider issues have found this thread useful (there are a lot of good links which may help your conversations with friends)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Bow out? Jesus.

Stay and fight if you believe in it.

I couldn't give a toss how "late" people are in coming to a realisation that uncritically agreeing to the demands of trans activists is a very bad idea.

All I want is for the facts to get out there and for people to make up their minds aware of what's being demanded and where it might take us.

Atreides

This

There are still a lot of people out there who are bought into the mantra of the trans community being victimised

And this:

The issue is they don't fully understand what the trans umbrella encapsulates

These two things are the biggest barriers to well-meaning people who don't want to appear bigoted in their understanding of why feminists are upset

AND

The fact that TAs are asking for self ID with no requirement for any surgery

@Agastache I did not say that I was dismayed at feminists, I said that I was dismayed at the disagreement. I think that there are many people like me who were initially baffled and saddened by the dispute that erupted on social media.

Anyway, I will bow out now but will carry on looking for ways to oppose the change. I am work in the City of London and have filled in their consultation today and have a friend who has been invited to speak on a panel on the topic of self-id and will also bend her ear on the subject.

Best wishes to you all.

Well, enjoy MN whilst you can - as they are coming for the host of this forum once the consultation is over, and they will shut it down.

Whichever side of history we are on.

Agastache, totally get where you're coming from, it is maddening to have been pointing this out to blank looks for so long, but peaking is peaking and should be welcomed however late in the day

Here here mrn

The best course for the trans community and trans-supporting politicians is to start over, from a premise based on reality. Men are not women. When they feminize themselves, whether medically or only through changes in style, what threatens them is not “transmisogyny” but homophobia. If the trans community were to launch a major campaign against homophobic violence and discrimination, and feminists will join, as will the gays and lesbians the trans community have alienated.

The reality is, women will not accept men as women. We simply will not. Because the reality of womanhood is too much with us, from an early age — in the material reality of our own blood, our fertility, and male aggression against us. We have, on an honor system, accepted the polite fiction of transsexual women. But the male-entitled demand that we accept any man as woman, simply on his say-so, is an example of reality asserting itself: men are not women, and they prove that in the very act of demanding, and attempting to force, women to bow to male conceit.

This is one of the best things I've read on this issue.

@Agastache, how does it help to give a sarky comment to someone who is peak-transing?

Well, bloody great that people are peak transing.

Sorry for being pissed off that Ninon was so dismayed at the feminists - up until now.

Dismayed. Fucks sake. As if we were just pissing up a wall because we could. This is about the total dissolution of the concept of 'women'.

Mrnohips - the internet is awash with photos and cartoons of men with huge breasts and erect penises. It has convinced me that for a lot of transwomen, identifying as trans has a lot to do with fetish and very little to do with dysphoria.

Ugh, no wonder so many men want to hang on to their bits.

@Agastache, how does it help to give a sarky comment to someone who is peak-transing?
Posters on MN frequently comment that most of the population has no idea what is going on.

And you are very welcome, Ninon.

I agree this could be a real turning point and particularly in terms of submitting a response to the government's GRA consultation

Jess Bradley, who was a major contributor in the original Maria Miller enquiry, being discredited in this way gives us grounds for saying that removing the diagnosis element would be a mistake.

H'mm, I wonder if that's a contributing factor to the Carter Ruck involvement; interested parties coughing up funds to stop the consultation being derailed by negative publicity?