Social contagion, ROGD etc

Contradictions?

TRA: affirm EVERY identity, if a child says it, it is true and innate. Children are never wrong or confused. Also ROGD is a myth

Child aged 4: I'm a girl
Child aged 6: I'm a girl
Child aged 8: I'm a girl
Child aged 10: I'm a girl
Child aged 12: I'm a girl
Child aged 14: I'm a boy

TRA: Disregard child declarations ages 4-14. Child was wrong/confused/lying. Child is categorically trans. Support and affirm trans identity aged 14.

Child aged 16: I've desisted. I'm a lesbian girl.

TRA: Child was never true trans. Desistance doesn't exist.

Vickieeadie also well said. There is a lot of clever women on this website. Come in trepidation tras: you shall be beaten: we shall not be erased.

Such on the ball Ness such withitness.

It reminds me of that list someone posted earlier. Of dichotomies. It was brilliant.

Omg youre fantastic pombeAr!

It has to be said, that the entire time this issue has been discussed here, not a single, solitary person has managed to make a coherent argument against women's objections.

Not one. Not a trans person, a lawyer, a doctor, or a politician.

Questions are left unaddressed, issues studiously ignored, threads are derailed, impossible things are insisted upon, with aggressive denials, in the face of contrary evidence.

When the discussions have taken their course, the only argument TRAs ever have left is why are you being so mean. Every single time.

It's quite extraordinary. They have nothing. Absolutely nothing.

The derailment was a QED? Oopsy!

Or have we already expanded the bandwidth of QED? I can't keep up!

ButterflyT
I've given this thread a really good reading, as I couldn't quite get why you thought you were misjudged and that you were addressing the OP about the contradictions of trans right activists arguments. As it did look like a bit of a derail.

But then I got it! I agree, you were demonstrating exactly what the OP was stating.

Your post at 16.19 stated unless you are trans you can't really understand what it's like

And then at 17.08 you followed up with trans women have an innate sense that they are female

As someone else has pointed out, you're demonstrating the OP's case in point as you're saying a transwoman can claim an innate 'feeling' of being female, but no one else can claim anything else.

Females aren't permitted to say 'unless you are female, you can't really know how it 'feels' to be female. Females can't say ' what you seem to be expressing is the external stereotypes of what this current society equates to be 'a woman'.

Update: Ah, I've just previewed my message and seen you're already flouncing. But I'm going to pop this post up anyway.

And given your last post bemoaning the inclusion of sexual fetish and intact penis - by the way, Stonewall's very definition of 'transpeople' -your earlier comment:

Oh yes, something about women being comfortable with people they "think" are transsexuals. That's a very interesting concept. How do you they know?

resonates with other a few other new visitors' posts along the lines of 'we've been in your space already' type stuff .

Many women here have heightened red-flag radars, for many reasons. You just sent one up the flagpole right there!)

Cheerio.

Bye then.

AGP fetishists? People with intact penises? I can see where you get your information from. Trans people are not a problem, but it's clear that some, if not all of you think they are. I'm going to leave you to it.

Parent-teacher? Lol, I typed parent-bashing.

Now, where were we? Oh yes, something about women being comfortable with people they "think" are transsexuals. That's a very interesting concept. How do you they know?

If you meant to say 'how do you think they know (that the people concerned are transsexuals)?', the point I was making that most women are giving a response in abstract - most people, in fact, assume that 'transwomen' are all transsexuals, rather than AGP fetishists, people with intact penises, full beards, etc and people with 'die cis scum' tattooed on their arms.

When people are asked in a survey or poll if they are Ok with 'transwomen' coming into their safe spaces, they answer in terms of transsexuals, not the whole panoply represented by the Stonewall umbrella.

ButterflyT, no. You do not get to dictate the conversation.

The topic is the internal contradictions of the Genderist extremist's arguments. If you have anything useful to contribute on that, go right ahead. I imagine sadly that you'll probably want to resume the parent-teacher forthwith. Surprise me.

Interesting read about unconditionally love.

amotherfarfromhome.com/what-unconditional-love-is-and-what-it-isnt/

Sorry about that, the little darlings were so hungry, but all sorted :)

Now, where were we? Oh yes, something about women being comfortable with people they "think" are transsexuals. That's a very interesting concept. How do you they know?

BTW, I was commenting on the original OP but it seems to have been hijacked by people who want to talk about transsexuals. I'm OK with that though

Yes, it does have the frantic air of a giant floating head telling us to not pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.

So, I see we have been successfully derailed from discussing internal contradictions in the political positions taken by extremist transactivism. Sigh.

I also don't think that women in general are gender critical, the vast majority that I know are quite comfortable with trans people

They're "quite comfortable" with the ones they think are transsexual.

They're scared as fuck of the ones with 'die cis scum' tattooed on their arms and the ones who say 'suck my lady dick'.

Welcome to Mumsnet ButterflyT. Glad you were able to find this board to put us right about parenting.

Not sure how old your "little cherubs" are but parents who've had to face an intransigent 14 year old who's determined to meet up with a 30 year old or who is getting drunk or is self harming or who thinks that it would be great to go and fight with ISIS or who has an eating disorder or who has ROGD, know that in addition to listening to and having respect for a child's feelings, parenting is a lot more challenging and nuanced than your simplistic suggestion. Something that the women on this board know and appreciate.

ButterflyT

In order for your contradictory assertions to make sense, you will have to decide whether or not transgenderism is a social movement or medical condition.

ButterflyT, loving my child unconditionally does not mean smiling and nodding along to every harmful and silly thing they do. If strangers on the internet are telling them that their short hair, preference for the clothes section marked 'boys', love of basketball and detestation of their newly growing breasts means they are in fact a boy, then better believe I am cutting off their internet access the same way I would if any stranger was telling my child lies.

You can attempt to shame parents into adopting this passive, coddling approach to raising kids all you want (apparently it's fine by MNHQ) but be aware that some of us have ovaries of solid rock and are going to push back against it and support any and all other parents you pressure, too.

It's not a push to pretend anything, it's about listening to and having respect for your child's feelings and yes, it should be investigated by professionals who have experience in that field.
Anyway, must go and cook tea for my little cherubs.

I've never met a trans person who would recommend being trans to anyone

You just said it's harmless and a social movement.

Trans logic.

Be consistent