Excellent counter-view to ROGD

meetthe

Why is the line on the graphs going upwards then?

If what you and garam say is true, it should be steady, and have experienced a decline post 2013.

My 20 year old young adult child and ROGD: no gender non-conforming history, quite the opposite; experiences a number of very difficult and traumatising personal life events between 16-19; becomes a lesbian at 19.

Things start going wrong a couple of months after she turns 20, when she is back living at home after finally having to give up a long- cherished ambition. *
*
She is without a direction, looking for a new identity, and has not given herself time or space to work through her previous difficulties and issues.

She spends vast amounts of time on the internet and starts to isolate herself from the family.

Month 1 says she "hates" her breasts.
Month 2 'comes out' as Non Binary/they.
Month 5 goes to the GP for referral to the gender clinic.
Month 11 changes her birth name and 'comes out' as trans/they/he.
Month 14 has first NHS 'gender specialist' diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
Month 17 has 2nd diagnosis of gender dysphoria from Tavistock clinic.
Month 18 starts on testosterone and is put on waiting list for double mastectomy.

Don't you DARE tell me we're making this shit up.

"Is part of the definition of ROGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria) that ROGD patients must always be unhappy about transitioning and therefore de-transition must always occur?"

ROGD Trumpeteers: 'There's no such thing as trans. Trans kids are just confused GNC lesbians (if we remember, we occasionally talk about GNC gay men as well, but mostly we don't). "Trans" kids catch the trans from social media.'

Two psychologists: 'We're desperately going to try and shoebox this case into a term that has no medical or scientific backing.'

Reality: Trans kid is trans. Trans kid grows up to be happy trans adult. No actual sign or evidence in any of the documentation provided that the trans kid actually had any signs of 'rapid onset' anything, plentiful signs that trans kid received education from multiple sources about transgender issues and, from there, recognised something in themselves that they were already experiencing, but had no conceptual understanding of before that point, that would allow them to adequately express that they were transgender.

Given that the biggest growth in referrals - by a huge margin - is young girls, it would be great if we could all agree that it's vital that the voices of people who were once young girls themselves (one might call them "women" as a useful shorthand) are centred in this issue

twitter.com/itsjillgardner/status/1022554161907412999

I don't know how to say this, but trans adults, are ex-trans kids

What, even autogynephiles who fetishise females? And yet we are constantly called transphobic for worrying about mixed sex accommodation between girls and boys who say they're trans.

Trans logic, though.

garam

How do you account for the 10 girls coming out simultaneously at a well known girls' school?

Are you also of the opinion that all the mothers knew each other, lived in the same street, and drank the same water?

Waves arm in air....

I'm an example of someone whose (unfortunately still but working on divorce) married to a guy who has been very rapid with his onset Gender Dysphoria.

Can I add my voice to those others, including his doctors, who KNOW, this is a thing, it exists!

Sorry my experience doesn't match your imagination of my experience.

Here for example is an article showing that no-one is allowed to talk about (1) detransitioning and (2) alternative treatment than affirmation.

Now I know some of the "alternatives" are alt-right Christian fundamentalist bonkers stuff, but surely there's a middle ground?

It goes against the mantra that all transpeople were born that way, and to suggest it was rapid onset might lead people to examine social and cultural influences, which is not allowed, especially when those social and cultural influences are transpeople and translobbyist themselves. That’s why they jumped on the LGB bandwagon. Born this way has been a powerful tool convincing right-wing people to be more accepting of homosexuality, only the gay recruiting they were afraid of wasn’t happening, where as the trans recruiting is definitely happening.

Who is the youtuber who detransitioned? And who isn't allowed to talk about it?

I saw a couple of her videos last week, and I'm horrified at the silencing of people who "changed their minds" or, in other words, were diagnosed incorrectly.

If no-one is allowed to talk about it, and no-one is allowed to research it (see James Caspian), and even a hint of gender non-conformity is affirmed, welcomed, and called brave (and comes with a whole host of celebrations and rights that would be removed if the child admitted to making a mistake), how can anyone know anything factual about how many are misdiagnosed/mistaken/influenced?

Interesting article about the process of social contagion with regards bulimia nervosa.
'The Strange, Contagious History of Bulimia'
By
Lee Daniel Kravetz

"The theory of media’s culpability in the spread of social contagions is not a new one. Psychologists studying the developmental psychopathology of eating disorders have led dozens of controlled experiments finding a near-perfect link between mass media and eating disorder symptoms. The question in my mind now isn’t whether media have a part to play in replicating social contagions; if we were able to purge ourselves of certain conduits of influence like media itself, we might have an easier time stopping transmission. Rather, I question just how big a part media actually play in spreading them."
www.thecut.com/article/how-bulimia-became-a-medical-diagnosis.html

Kravetz is the author of 'Strange Contagion: Inside the Surprising Science of Infectious Behaviors and Viral Emotions and What They Tell Us About Ourselves'

garam

The diagnostic criteria changed in 2013 precisely because GNC kids were caught up with actual trans kids.

Another question for you, that I have yet to see a satisfactory answer to is how do you tell who are "actual trans kids"? The only reasonable answer I've seen is the ones who are still suffering from gender dysphoria as adults if they are not medicated as children.

What are the diagnostic criteria which can be applied to children with an accuracy which is close to certainty? Because you have to be very sure before medicating children with irreversible treatments.

Exactly sarah

Duck her! If she’s a witch, she floats. If she doesn’t, she was innocent.

Très modern.

Why’s the line on that graph going up garam?

All studies are pre-2013. The diagnostic criteria changed in 2013 precisely because GNC kids were caught up with actual trans kids.

As old crone says, if that were the case the line on the graph ROwan posted would be going down.

And it’s not is it? Why is that? You’ve just said you’ve cut down your patient pool, but your numbers are up HUGELY.

Why?

The earlier studies were before puberty blockers were issued so liberally. Puberty blockers prevent desistance. Without them and without the social media pressure I suspect rates would be continuing at the same level. Of course if you decide that anyone who desists is GNCand not trans after all then your desistence rate will be 0%

Yup, and there has never been anyone embrace a religious ideology in a short time, and go all fire and brimstone seemingly overnight. No one has ever been manipulated into a cult, or radicalised online. No one has ever embraced flat earth, or dinosaur/evolution denial.

Nope, those things are innate, and folk never change their minds as they grow.

MeetTheNewAccountSameAsTheOld wrote - "two psychologists who immediately contradicted their use of the term by showing that the person in question continued in their transition and was perfectly happy not only with doing so, but happy with their transition on all measured outcomes."

Is part of the definition of ROGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria) that ROGD patients must always be unhappy about transitioning and therefore de-transition must always occur?

Is the case that you mention supposed to be evidence that you think proves that rapid onset is impossible?

garam
So how do you explain the enormous rise in girls presenting as trans since 2014? See the post by PencilsInSpace above.

If your explanation was correct, then the numbers would have dropped afer 2013, not increased massively.

It's gender dysphoria.

With rapid onset.

What is your beef with calling that 'rapid onset gender dysphoria'?

You lack basic understanding of the way medical communities work to develop strategies for treatment, how they gather evidence and apply scientific rigour to their workings.

I’m embarrassed for you.

Peach Yoghurt, YouTube video:
'This could have been a transgender timeline if I was born later. I'm very happy with my womanhood now. I enjoy the freedom to be my own woman.'

Yeah, it's so like grooming it's unreal. Always on the hunt for recruits. Who must be young. Who must be separated from those who protect them.

I don’t think autogynephilic heterosexual men are more important than teenage girls.

I think important voices to hear in all this are people like this woman, who talks about her journey into the transgender cult, then her subsequent desistance.
4thwavenow.com/2018/03/12/baptised-in-fire-a-relieved-desisters-story/