Excellent counter-view to ROGD

IcyNoII

I don't type. I use speech recognition. And that's how deviantART appeared. All by itself.

Try it.

Autogynephilia is not 'mudslinging', nor absurd.

It has been responsible for the devastation of the lives of many women and children.

The trans widows thread on here is a testament to that. Anyone can google trans widows and see the women's viewpoint. And then google #transgirls, to see the men's.

It's also well established that men who transition late, yearn for a more feminine appearance, which they encourage in younger transitioners. Numerous evidential websites.

Hence it's relationship to ROGD.

AGP and cross dressing fetishism, is a large part of the reason why women are objecting to self ID.

When 'transgender' was confined to transsexuals, the numbers were small, and this aggressive, misogynistic campaigning was unheard of.

Sarahcarer writes:
The earlier studies were before puberty blockers were issued so liberally. Puberty blockers prevent desistance.
And OldCrone writes:
Because you have to be very sure before medicating children with irreversible treatments.
Chillingly, #1 disproves #2. They don't need to be sure, because nobody desists after blockers. There is no going back.

I don’t think there’s any evidence at all that the increased social acceptability of being out as gay or lesbian had any impact on the number of people who actually are gay or lesbian. That remains pretty static across times and places.

They’re just not comparable. I’m almost embarrassed for you garam- the poor grasp of history, statistics, biology and psychology shown on that thread is glaringly obvious. What is it that upsets you about the term “ROGD”?

Whilst I don't expect the usual faces to accept a word of it, thats not the point.

The point is for other people who are open minded to have another viewpoint on here.

I completely agree. I think you and icy should express your viewpoint over all this, as often as possible.

And link to Twitter.

And you should especially complain that it can't be a real thing, because doctors haven't given it a hashtag.

Like I said, no GIS is pushing or starting hashtags of ROGD, in fact no medical establishment is doing that.

"Yes, I was prepared to accept that deviantART wasn't necessary what I thought, hence me saying I didn't speak Japanese."

DeviantArt

Deviant Art

Two words. Both English.

I'm assuming you probably don't speak Awabakal either. No idea why that means you couldn't type "DeviantArt" into Google, find out what it is.

Called, you know, basic research?

Oh wait, just a flimsy pretext to engage in mudslinging.

You got caught.

Response: engage in more mudslinging.

But thanks for the opportunity to let me highlight the absurdities contained in your post. Much appreciated.

I’m very interested in the accusations that professionals citing Freud are somehow poor doctors.

Noone said having a better diagnosis makes the number of actual trans kids increase, why would you think that?

garam You said the studies showing desistance were all pre-2013, and now the diagnostic criteria were more accurate. Since 2013 the numbers of referrals of children to gender clinics has increased enormously.

More accurate diagnosis to remove the not-really-trans children should decrease the numbers. So why have the numbers increased instead?

I'm still waiting for someone to explain 12 girls transitioning simultaneously.

And the headteacher who said she had a further 12 or 15, was it, transitioning over 18 months.

As that bulimia article pointed out, it's no good saying that these children were always there, but acceptance is making them come out.

Parents would have known if their children were wildly distressed about their sex

I don’t think autogynephilic heterosexual men are more important than teenage girls.
Neither do I, in fact I think they are two entirely separate groups with almost nothing in common and should be treated as such

they are unrelated.

No they can’t be.

You’re saying that a significant drop in the patient pool occurred post 2013. You’re saying that at that point it was magically possible to differentiate a GNC child from a trans child (evidence for how this is done would be nice.) so your patient pool should have dropped by that 80% who you say were never trans but just GNC.

So what you should see even with massively increased awareness and more kids ‘coming out’ (which is disingenuous because trans is not a sexual orientation) is a drop in numbers.

If that happened against a background of increased awareness etc you’d see a general rise with a drop at that point, where the weeding out of GNC kids occurred.

But you don’t. You see no drop, and a huge sustained rise.

If that rise was due to better awareness it wouldn’t be that shape either.

So I ask again - how do you account for the shape of that graph?

I don't know how to say this, but trans adults, are ex-trans kids.
I do know how to say this, garam, but you are dead wrong. Most ex-trans kids are homosexual adults, not trans adults.
Trans adults understand this issue perfectly well, and are without doubt the most important voices in this debate.
Hence why this is rubbish.

It is real. But not necessarily innate.

The question is if it was easier/supported/expected that you might be radically gender non compliant and you might hate large parts of your body and that was considered just normal , something to get over rather than a drama, then just perhaps we would not see the huge rise in people saying they are trans. we would not see treatement and medicalisation for what is really just part and parcel of being human.

How much is innate and how much is caused by society, social media etc offering trans as a ooh you are so special , poor you, solution when the default first solution should be supporting people to be themselves without needing to medicalise and label them

Children who are pandered too tend not to grow up as strong happy adults. sometimes they need help to understand things. And children should never be told there is something so badly wrong with their body that it needs medical suppprt unless that is really true.

IcyNoll, anime gets pretty dark, pretty quickly. There is some hardcore porn not very far below the surface.

Are you not interested in finding out what causes such a distressing condition as gender dysphoria? A condition which causes its sufferers to self harm and contemplate suicide.
That suggests we would want to prevent it, and trans people might argue that is "literal genocide"...

There is no such thing as 'genuinely being the opposite sex to your sex'. No matter how 'accepting' and indeed loving we are towards non-conforming children, they can never become the opposite sex, though they can impair the function of their natural body.

This is the thing, the people who bang on about desistance and AGP, are clinging to outdated understandings and flawed studies.

Sure. Autogynephilia doesn't exist right?

Which is why, if I go on Instagram or twitter and search pretty much any trans hashtag, there are absolutely no trans women posing erotically with their breasts and a hint of their penis on show, perhaps. And also if I go on dedicated trans forums, there are absolutely no men on there talking about wanting bottom surgery so they can participate in violent gang rape fantasies more easily or generally be more sexually submissive ('3 holes are better than 2!').

Nope, autogynephilia is a complete myth. And the moon is made of cheese.

And the name also seems to be the name of website showing a collection of so called 'deviant art'? Mostly anime?

You mean, this DeviantArt:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeviantArt

One of the biggest sites featuring original photography, digital art, traditional art, literature, and filmmaking, and also one of the world's largest repository of free-to-use stock imagery and photography.

Got it's name because "DeviantArt started as a site connected with people who took computer applications and modified them to their own tastes, or who "deviated" the applications from the original designs. As the site grew, members in general became known as "deviants" and submissions as "deviations""

I have to say, a familiar feeling of predictability and tedium came over me as more mudslinging and slurring of people was made on this board by a regular contributor to a Mumsnet board who couldn't be bothered to do basic research, par for the course so it is.

I know transactivists can't be expected to be anything other than oppositional. Until they accept that biological sex is significant, that will continue.

But there is also the, quite understandable, lack of comprehension about being raised female.

Because it's not just that they disagree with what women are saying, they have no idea of the magnitude of women who totally get ROGD.

Even if they haven't been diagnosed with it, it's like a very familiar pair of slippers. We've been there.

The fact that they think they can persuade women is, like all this, very telling.

Now there is more resources and better attitudes towards trans acceptance more and more actual trans people will come out.

Read this article that R0wantrees linked to
www.thecut.com/article/how-bulimia-became-a-medical-diagnosis.html

“It makes you wonder if maybe bulimia wasn’t a new eating disorder, that it was always there and people just didn’t notice it or talk about it before your paper came out,” I offer.

Russell demurs politely. If the hidden afflicted numbered as overwhelmingly high as they now seem, surely the condition would have made itself known well before he — or anyone, for that matter — identified it. “You might suggest it required somebody to come along and put two and two together before people felt safe talking about bulimia, but I don’t believe that.

“Until then,” he continued, “the disorder was extremely rare. But after 1980, it became widespread in a very short period of time. Once it was described, and I take full responsibility for that with my paper, there was a common language for it. And knowledge spreads very quickly.”

With this knowledge, Russell’s discovery took on characteristics of a pandemic that was set to claim 30 million people, but neither he nor anyone could do a thing at that point to stop it. He was confronted, he says, by a problem of entropy, a gradual decline into disorder with devastating implications for social contagions: once they are out, they are virtually impossible to rein it back in again.

Are you denying that social contagion exists as well?

Now there is more resources and better attitudes towards trans acceptance more and more actual trans people will come out.

So you have no concerns that a large number of the teenage girls saying they are trans have significant other issues like autism or being victims of sexual assault? You see that as being insignificant?

garam

What is your explanation for 12 girls simultaneously?

MeetTheNew and garam

What is a 'trans kid'? How do you diagnose a transgender child? What signs do they show that they are trans? How are you sure that they are 'really' trans and it is not just a phase or a reaction to trauma?

And the name also seems to be the name of website showing a collection of so called 'deviant art'? Mostly anime?

I don't speak Japanese, so it might mean something else entirely. But I have to say, a familiar feeling of predictability and tedium came over me.

Please indicate what kind of credibility this person has???