Excellent counter-view to ROGD

Look out for the process and mantra everyone:
Children should be introduced to the idea of being trans very young
Only trans adults understand your child (your child being any child who has considered they may be trans, after they have been introduced to the idea)
You do not understand your child
If you don't follow the trans rules around pronouns, names and toilets you are making your child unsafe
They are likely to commit suicide
You are a safeguarding concern
The children are heralded as brave
They are showered with "love" by their new online trans community
They are told this is "who they are"
This is "who they have always been"

That twitter thread is woeful. I'd be embarrassed to put it forward as evidence of ... well ... of something.

The main thrust seems to be that ROGD can't exist because if it did then that would be mean.

Seriously TRAs, if this is the best you can do, doesn't it tell you something?

The point is for other people who are open minded to have another viewpoint on here

I don't mean to be rude garam but the only people I see make statements like this are anti-vaxxers, homeopathy practioners and reiki healers.

Scientists generally (not always) have pretty open minds. The whole scientific process is about testing one's work to see if you can replicate results and if you can't, exploring new ideas until you get a result that can be replicated reliably. We wouldn't have made much progress if new ideas weren't considered. But if those ideas are a load of rubbish, well.....

Two pyschologists connected to the Tavi wrote a paper last week, citing Freud as references for their hypothesis.

And...?

I’ve read many papers which cite Freud, in fact students I worked with last semester were using his work and applying it to PTSD.

Are you suggesting all of Freud’s theories and work are obsolete?

garam Even assuming that some adult trans people suffered dysphoria a children, and it seems many didn't, that doesn't rule out ROGD as a modern phenomenon exacerbated by social media and aggressive TRA campaigning- which includes the suggestion that gender non conforming kids are trans.

You're right that it's important to listen to people who have personal experience.

Given that the biggest growth in referrals - by a huge margin - is young girls, it would be great if we could all agree that it's vital that the voices of people who were once young girls themselves (one might call them "women" as a useful shorthand) are centred in this issue.

There have been a number of discussions, articles etc this week focussed on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD).

Twitter #ROGDWEEK2018

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3315676-ROGDWEEK2018

Trans adults understand this issue perfectly well, and are without doubt the most important voices in this debate.

Why? The push I see is for demedicalisation for adults, who are then lobbying for medicalisation early for children.

That doesn’t sit well with safeguarding. It doesn’t sit well with medical ethics and it doesn’t reflect good clinical practice.

Patient lobby groups for any indication should have a voice. However that voice should not be heard to the detriment of evidence based practice, of research, nor of the safeguarding of children.

Can you justify why a patient group should be heard over the law, safeguarding rules and medical ethics?

Nothing to see here ... move along ...

(Tavistock & Portman figures)

Because of course when you go to the doctors, they don’t take a history any more, they just ask for your history in x characters or fewer then give you a hashtag.

#It is known.

I don't know how to say this but whilst tans adults probably were trans kid, not all kids who appear trans will be trans adults

probably by a huge factor

I probably meet all the criteria to be trans, but I am not. I am mentally stable and understand that I am a woman just because woman means what my body is. Nothing more and nothing less.

garam

Most people who transition later in life are men. Most of the teenagers presenting as trans are girls.

80% of children who present as trans desist by adulthood. Do you suggest we sacrifice them for the sake of the 20%?

Now do you see the problem of the "trans kids grow up to be trans adults" narrative?

Anti vaxxing isn't really a good example. Like the claim that humans can change sex, it has no basis in science.

"the opinions of freudian psychologists instead of modern understanding

Define modern understanding please.

There's an awful lot of disregarding medical expertise here isn't there?

Sorry, x-post CathKidston

"the opinions of freudian psychologists instead of modern understanding"

Can we unpick this please. Are you suggesting that the Tavistock use the opinions of actual, qualified psychologists rather than self-identified trans "experts". Or are you saying something else?

Whilst I don't expect the usual faces to accept a word of it,

The ones with the medical/scientific background? Who are qualified to examine such evidence and critique it?

Or the parents seeking help on here for their children? The ones who have seen it first hand?

What do you say to those parents?

What’s your actual scientific and medical argument?

Other than antivax = bad, and I’ve decided to use the two concepts together in a sentence to link them in someone’s minds?

What benefit is there to discrediting ROGD (and parents' experience of it)?

I’m boiling hot, my feet are the size of a small melon, I’m in considerable pain and in the mood for arguing science, my dear Empress.

Bring.it.on.

and the Tavi uses the opinions of freudian pyschologists instead of modern understanding.

Are you trying to discredit this clinic?
What is your medical background?

ME for example

That wasnt seen as an illness when it came up

Nobody in the medical profession acknowledged it

In fact some in the medical profession STILL don't acknowledge it