Ultimate betrayal by the WEP

Are WEP membership dues significantly different from other political parties?

I know I donated additional to my ticket in order to provide free/subsidised conference places to those whom the cost may be a barrier - I believe members can apply for subsidised tickets if they need.

WEP exclude women who can't afford the fees and women who cant attend conference to vote.

It's pointless Sophie Walker railing against women who have no money, no childcare and other responsibilities.

Jacky I haven't seen you on twitter for ages, have you left or been banned? I have missed you and your wonderful goodnights!

EmpressOfSpartacus

"I'd join if that happened. I bet a lot of us would."

I'm inclined to agree, sister. However, I would also want to see some identification of aims and a sense of direction towards achieving those.

(That was to Jacky)

I can’t speak for Sophie in terms of signalling for help, but, as a gender critical active WEPer who re-joined in the hope that WEP could become what we wish it would be - please, yes, join, get involved, get to conference or at least talk to other members, tell branch leaders your views, be heard - but if the criticism is coming from outside the party, it’s fairly ineffective at this point.

If that is the case then maybe WEP should be dissolved as it is and reformulated to make it clear that any newly formulated WEP is about those humans who are born female?

I'd join if that happened. I bet a lot of us would.

Macareaux

"I hear what you are saying ... but ... but ... I think Sophie has been peak transed and if the policy of their party is for members to decide policy then maybe she is signalling for help? "

If that is the case then maybe WEP should be dissolved as it is and reformulated to make it clear that any newly formulated WEP is about those humans who are born female?

Well then put that to her if you wish - like I said, I think that would be the explanation, I’m not here to back that up or justify it.

I hear what you are saying ... but ... but ... I think Sophie has been peak transed and if the policy of their party is for members to decide policy then maybe she is signalling for help?

I know I am cutting her far more slack than she deserves, and I know that in the grand scheme of things the WEP is smaller than a minnow, but if we could take WEP back from the transactivists it would send a big message. Don't know how many of us would need to sign up and go to make a stand but on balance I do think it is worth the effort. I think WPUK have offered to be involved.

Cwenthryth

Then Walker needs to learn what leadership means? Leadership is not dictatorship. Neither is it being dictated to by 'members' majority view.

Leadership is about having a vision towards a particular location and steering everyone to that place.

Sophie Walker came on Mumsnet over two years ago and came out with the whole there are many journeys that can define womanhood bullshit.

Yes. Sandi Toksvig did a guest post plugging WEP, about the same time that they were tweeting support for Tara Hudson.

At the time I think a lot of us were hopeful about WEP. We answered Sandi's post, asked about the tweet, hoped it was a misunderstanding.

But it took days of replies to that post, & finally tweeting WEP, to get any response. And when we did? Sophie came on the thread, said that gender identity is a thing & transwomen are women, & left. That was it.

All WEP's appearances on MN boards since have just made things worse.

I think the WEP answer to that would be - catchphrase - doing politics differently. Policies crowdsourced from members, not dictated top down. Leaders job is to listen and represent members views.

Which is fine for policies. I think it's a great idea for policies.

Not a good idea about biological facts though.

Jacky that was my thought when I read it, and I thought about doing it.

But then I read this post:

basically they want the feminists there to be bulldozed. They want any concerns raised to be met with a legal argument that will likely be difficult for any non-legal experts to challenge, especially when both experts will be agreeing with everything they each say. As informed as we all are, I know I have had to google like mad sometimes when debating with a lawyer on twitter in order to challenge their points (which I have usually done successfully but only after I could clarify certain points/get more info). So it is not just one-sided, but a clear attempt to bulldoze those with valid concerns

And now I'm not so sure.

I think Sophie has realised the error of WEP's ways on this issue. And I think she'd like the party to change direction. But unfortunately she's relying on the members to make the difficult decisions for her, and it's too late as they've all left the party already.

Don't know what to do.

I think the WEP answer to that would be - catchphrase - doing politics differently. Policies crowdsourced from members, not dictated top down. Leaders job is to listen and represent members views.

Cwenthryth

Sophie Walker has adopted the role as leader of a political party ... she needs to show leadership so that people know what they are being asked to follow and support.

Walker needs to say that no human can ever change sex and that no -one born male is ever a woman and no-one born female is ever a man.

ReappearingWoman

I'm inclined to agree ... leadership is indeed the issue here.

Is this a plea for women to join WEP and vote down the transgenders who have infiltrated WP?

For goodness sake YES PLEASE!!!

WEP have not yet formalised a TWAW stance.

She doesn't seem to understand the premise of courting political support. She's running a party called the WOMEN's equality party. It's up to her to state her stance on issues & then for others to decide if they'll support her party. If she won't, or worse, can't state she supports women on this issue, it's a bit much to expect women to follow blindly hoping she'll show leadership on this.

There's enough of a voice out there to show that women disillusioned by every other party who are ignoring or silencing women, who are desperate for an alternative, for her to see this as a legitimate stance to take that'll gain support. That she can't do that illustrates that she's still weighing the options & just as spineless on this as every other politician.

She should just go full TRA cos no one is buying her tortured wrangling on this. I think the appropriate phrase, as Datun has put it, either shit or get off the pot.

Macareaux

"However Sophie Walker has just tweeted this:

"I've lost count of the number of conversations like this I have had w women who are not members & won't do this work with us and are then angry because it's being done too slowly. I'm sorry you have no confidence in the debate. I'm sorrier you don't want to try to do it with me" "

Is this a plea for women to join WEP and vote down the transgenders who have infiltrated WP?

Popchyk is right. We have better things to be doing..better battles to be fighting!

As far as WEP is concerned, they nailed their colours to the mast of their leaky rowboat long ago and set sail - I for one won't attempt to rescue them when they start drowning! Which they will.

YY to all your posts(!)

The WEP are saying loud and clear that they don't believe that women and girls need female only spaces. They don't believe women and girls who say they have been intimated, threaten, abused and raped by men. They don't believe all of the women who say that they have been disadvantaged during their career because they are female.

At best they have encouraged the inclusion of male transpeople for the financial and promotional benefits.

I'm shocked that Sophie Walker expects me to waste my time on her vanity project while she says 'I don't believe' you to millions of women.

I just don't think that this fight is worth the fight. Personally.

They are already too far down the rabbit hole. And leaders of a political party need to show actual leadership, not " I'm sorrier you don't want to try to do it with me" stuff.

This has been the big issue right since the start of the WEP. And one that they have consistently failed to address. Sophie Walker came on Mumsnet over two years ago and came out with the whole there are many journeys that can define womanhood bullshit.

Over 2 years later, they still can't tell you what a woman actually is and they have set up two lawyers from the transgender lobby to speak at conference. With none to speak for women's rights.

And I suspect the only reason that those two lawyers are speaking is to get the self-ID motion passed in September and then submit the pro self-ID position of behalf of the WEP to the GRA consultation in October.

WEP are being played. And are far too dim to realise it.

This is who the WEP are. Believe them. They are never going to be any better. So spend your energies on things that actually will effect change.

I agree with leyat.
What is the point of WEP? Who listens to them? They are supposed to lead the way and advocate for women, it was bad enough when they decided not to stand any MP's.

Sophies comments are out of order. Not all women can afford WEP fees or are able to go to conference to vote. WEP excludes many women from its demographic, most of us already disenfranchised.

And yup Michelle whateverthefuck said at the start of a talk she gave that 'trans women are women, this is not a debate'. So yup, that's what WEP members will be facing...I hope someone records it....