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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ultimate betrayal by the WEP

235 replies

Procrastinator1 · 27/07/2018 12:01

Dr Stock has just tweeted this text of a motion to be put to the party conference in September

d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/womensequality/pages/5826/attachments/original/1532600430/Fnl_Gender_recognition_act_motion_final.pdf?1532600430

Obviously the motion hasn't been passed yet.

Motion text: 1 The Women’s Equality Party recognises the damage done by socially constructed gender 2 stereotypes and supports changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004. The Women’s Equality 3 Party supports changes to the current process by which transgender people are able to receive 4 legal recognition of their changed gender.

5 The Women’s Equality Party supports a process of legal recognition of changed gender which does 6 not require medical reports nor two years’ worth of documentation but a process of self- 7 determination of gender. The Women’s Equality Party supports legal recognition of non-binary 8 people.

9 The Women’s Equality Party calls on the Governments and administrations of the UK to make the 10 following changes to the current process as they revise the Gender Recognition Act 2004:

11 ● Change to the requirement to submit two supporting medical reports, one of a diagnosis of 12 gender dysphoria and one detailing treatment received. Change to the requirement to submit 13 documentation to prove the person has lived as their acquired gender for two years. Instead 14 require a self-determination process to change gender and to obtain a Gender Recognition 15 Certificate and new birth certificate. 16 ● Remove the requirement of spousal consent to obtain legal recognition of changed gender for 17 married people. 18 ● Allow people to change their gender to a third gender option as well as to male and female.

Motion rationale:

19 The Women’s Equality Party should clarify its position as changes to the Gender Recognition Act 20 (GRA) 2004 are being considered by the Governments and administrations of the UK. This change 21 would add depth to the already stated Women’s Equality Party position of supporting the right of an

OP posts:
Popchyk · 03/08/2018 15:54

This is an extract from a statement from the Women's Equality Party, in response to the Heather Brunskell Evans business.

www.womensequality.org.uk/nov_17_statement

"WE recognise that the binary words “woman” and “man” do not reflect the gender experience of everyone in our country and support the right of all to define their sex or gender or to reject gendered divisions as they choose.

Women, as a class, are discriminated against and oppressed. There is a shared experience as a class but that discrimination and oppression will often express itself differently for cis women and trans women, just as other factors such as age, ethnicity, economic background and disability are likely to have an impact.

WE are committed to addressing the very real oppression of trans people as well as the social structures that oppress and sometimes erase cis women and damage all genders. Cis inclusivity must never mean trans exclusivity, nor vice versa. There are huge and serious issues to address and it is vital that we find ways to discuss our experiences in an environment of mutual respect and tolerance if we are to progress to equality for all."

This is a done deal.

If the above is not official WEP policy, then why did they make that statement which makes it pretty clear that they think anyone can define their own sex and the WEP is fine with that?

R0wantrees · 03/08/2018 15:51

See TELI Co-founder Tara Hewitt's report for UHSM which records data on 'gender' and 'trans' as 'protected characteristics':

"As part of monitoring access to services and to meet our statutory reporting duty under the Equality Act 2010, the Trust produces reports breaking down patients who have accessed our services by age, ethnicity, gender and religion/belief. We recognise the need to extend this reporting to cover more of the protected characteristics included in the Equality Act and have actions in place to move towards this goal"

p5-7

www.uhsm.nhs.uk/content/uploads/2015/12/Annual-Equality-Diversity-Inclusion-Report-2017-Publish-Version.pdf

2rebecca · 03/08/2018 15:32

I don't see the point of the WEP if it isn't about females being equal to males and fighting for female voices in things like the Equality reviews. I'm not a big single issue political party fan anyway but would support them in the current climate if from the start they had just been a women's party, not a feminine people party. Once they started parroting the TWAW line they became another mixed sex left wing social justice party like the Greens. There already is a Green party (well several in different bits of the UK), we don't need another.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2018 15:18

ragged.media/2016/11/organizing-trans-equality/
November 18. 2016

article by SHANE BOOTHBY
Shane is the UK Editor of Ragged Media.

"Organizing for Trans Equality
The Trans Equality Legal Initiative links lawyers and activists in the fight against discrimination and inequality experienced by the trans community in the UK and abroad.

This week sees the launch and first annual conference of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI). The event, taking place in London, draws together human rights lawyers, trans third sector organizations, campaigners, journalists and academics for a day of discussion and knowledge sharing on key areas of the trans legal and activist landscape in the UK and more broadly.

Topics to be explored by panels both inside and outside the legal profession include health, justice, strategic litigation & impact of exclusionary provision, education and international protection... (continues)

"TELI’s founders themselves span a number of spheres, bringing wide experience:

Jess Bradley is the Director of Action for Trans Health, the UK’s largest campaign for democratic trans healthcare.

Michelle Brewer is a Barrister at Garden Court Chambers and advises members of the community on areas such as access to health, inclusion in education and challenging discriminatory practice.

Allan Briddock is a Consultant Barrister at Blake Morgan LLP and specializes in immigration and asylum with a particular interest in LGBTI issues.

David Bufton is an Associate at Linklaters LLP whose pro bono work for the firm sees him represent LGBTI asylum seekers to assist with their applications for asylum and provide legal counsel for Pride in London.

Tara Hewitt is a NHS Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Lead at the University Hospital of South Manchester and also works as a Diversity Consultant, supporting organizations across the UK.

Kate Hutchinson is Director of Training at Wipe Out Transphobia, where she provides training and support for a number of organizations including Barnardo’s, Welsh Women’s Aid and the NHS.

Cathy Jaquiss is a Pupil Barrister at 10KBW and intends to specialize in public law, drawing on human rights work in Togo, West Africa and experience of immigration law in the UK."

from thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325623-Jess-Bradley-a-government-advisor-on-womens-rights-suspended-by-NUS-over-indecent-blog-Part-iii

Procrastinator1 · 03/08/2018 15:15

The two barristers named advise the government.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 03/08/2018 14:08

Twitter thread which has been referred to previously, with Sophie Walker's comments:

twitter.com/Indy_Leya/status/1024703148236132353

Ultimate betrayal by the WEP
OrchidInTheSun · 03/08/2018 11:53

twitter.com/helensaxby11/status/1025286778025136128?s=21

This thread from Helen Saxby makes scary reading, particularly in the context of Stonewall's DV report and the woman in Canada bring forced to share a room with a male-bodied person

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/08/2018 11:44

Sandi Toksvig is happy to joke on TV about lesbians not being into penis. Yet I haven't heard / seen her saying anything to stand up for lesbians being female homosexuals. If she'd actually made a statement backing Julia Long & the others for their Pride protest I think that would have gone a long way. But either it's not politically expedient or she simply doesn't care

This. The silence speaks volumes. It would have been really nice if WEP had been the first org to break ranks and say "actually Transwomen are not women, and we are concerned about the push to replace the protected characteristic of sex with gender".

EmpressOfSpartacus · 03/08/2018 11:39

My friend recently cancelled her subscription after Pride when she saw all those banners of Sandi Toksvig's face being carried by WEP.

Sandi Toksvig is happy to joke on TV about lesbians not being into penis. Yet I haven't heard / seen her saying anything to stand up for lesbians being female homosexuals. If she'd actually made a statement backing Julia Long & the others for their Pride protest I think that would have gone a long way. But either it's not politically expedient or she simply doesn't care.

Marilla27 · 03/08/2018 10:26

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TimeLady · 02/08/2018 19:39

I don't see the point of voting for the WEP in a first-past-the-post voting system. I doubt they'd win in a contest against the other parties with just women voting, let alone in one with the male vote to overcome too. They're irrelevant.

The Women’s Equality Party contested seven seats in the general election:
In Shipley Sophie Walker won 1.9% of vote share
In Tunbridge Wells Celine Thomas won 1.3% of vote share
In Vauxhall Harini Iyengar won 1% of vote share
In Hornsey & Wood Green Nimco Ali won 0.9% of vote share
In Stirling Kirstein Rummery 0.7% of vote share
In Manchester Withington Sally Carr won 0.4% of vote share
In Vale of Glamorgan Sharon Lovell won 0.3% of vote share

EmpressOfSpartacus · 02/08/2018 18:27

But if Sophie did do an Ann Sinnott she might be surprised at how many WEP members / ex members stood with her.

Ereshkigal · 02/08/2018 18:13

Yup, shit or get off the pot, Sophie. Either stand with women or go full TRA, cos this mealy mouthed wrangling is not convincing anyone.

I agree. I don't think she can stand with women other than do an Ann Sinnott though.

Ereshkigal · 02/08/2018 18:12

Moving slowly but managed to secure the services of 2 top pro self ID lawyers to talk about the GRA. How fortunate they were both free at such a busy & crucial time.

Yes, it's very lucky!

LeiaTheSlaya · 02/08/2018 15:28

Yup, shit or get off the pot, Sophie. Either stand with women or go full TRA, cos this mealy mouthed wrangling is not convincing anyone.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 02/08/2018 15:25

And here we go... one of the responses to Sophie's tweet about the worried parent in Lewisham:

You continue to be the least trans friendly party leader. At least be honest about it. You want exclusionary feminists to join your party and you will throw trans rights under the bus to get them. And it might be a good move for you initially because they have loads of experience

Ultimate betrayal by the WEP
EmpressOfSpartacus · 02/08/2018 15:13

Sophie told us in 2014 that we were unreasonable to object to Tara Hudson being in a women's prison & that anyone could be a woman if they identified that way.

This isn't a new policy. This has been WEP's view right from the start.

LeiaTheSlaya · 02/08/2018 14:53

Moving slowly but managed to secure the services of 2 top pro self ID lawyers to talk about the GRA. How fortunate they were both free at such a busy & crucial time.

UpstartCrow · 02/08/2018 14:52

WEP just make me think of the Sunk Cost fallacy.
What have WEP achieved for women in return for the money they've used? Are they
treated as the go to expert on women's issues by anyone?

RadicalFern · 02/08/2018 14:48

I remember at the WPUK meeting in London, Sophie pled “small party, moving slowly” as to why they were still working on this issue. Nearly a year later, they seem to have failed to make any progress on the issues of protecting women and girls, and Sophie is still “working slowly.” I am in favour of carefully considering things, but to be no further on nearly a year on smacks of disinterest rather than circumspection. It is no wonder that women are losing patience.

BraveAndStunning · 02/08/2018 14:35

God that could actually happen couldn't it, a transwoman leader of WEP?

Yes, Lily Madigan will become 'disillusioned' with Jeremy and will step forward to be like my user name for the WEP. Cue applause

BraveAndStunning · 02/08/2018 14:29

Of all the betrayals of women, the WEP has been the greatest. It's an abomination that a debate as to whether to include males in the category of women exists at all, but for the Women's Equality Party?

It's unconscionable treachery.

LangCleg · 02/08/2018 14:26

Look, this is the party that basically said austerity was nothing to do with them way back in the early 2010s. When even then we knew that more than 80% of the cuts would fall on women.

So why we are surprised that they can't even manage to define the eponymous class of human being they claim to represent, I can't imagine.

LeiaTheSlaya · 02/08/2018 14:23

God that could actually happen couldn't it, a transwoman leader of WEP?

I suspect that's the long game here.

LeiaTheSlaya · 02/08/2018 14:22

You know, all of this tortured wrangling could have been avoided completely if they'd just define woman, and stick to it. If Sophie recognises and understands that sex matters, then say so. Stop this polite dancing round an important and pivotal issue, and just commit. One way or another.