Daughter with ROGD - issues with school

What ever happened to supporting their child? We should be listening to what our children want to do and make our decisions based off that.

Yes, and that decision is often going to be "no fucking way".

You won't hear any criticisms on this from GC feminists!

Except it seems in terms of things like gender pronouns.

I think that calling a child by the incorrect pronouns amounts to affirmation.
This is not cautious. The op is rightly terrified that their child will be put in the position where it is more difficult to change their mind, as we know so many children do.
The end result would be to put the child on a course of lifelong medication. I'm sure that no one wants this for their children.

Some people feel alienated from their sex for a short period of time, others for longer. For some people, using a different name and pronouns helps them feel more comfortable. At the moment, we don't know if the alienation you are experiencing will be short or long lived. Until we do, it is worth keeping all options open.

Totally agree with that.

It's called "parenting" and it's not illegal, no matter how much unrelated adults on the internet would like it to be.

If my school-aged child was on incel forums I would be taking action to stop them, if my school-aged child was on pro-ana forums I would take action to stop them, if my school-aged child was on forums for a cult that required changing your name, how you look and body modification I would take action to stop them.

I would be horrified if my child's school supported them in being involved in these groups however much my child identified with the actions of these groups.

Snappity The Royal College of Psychiatrists who say that no child should be pressured to behave in line with the gender assigned at birth

You won't hear any criticisms on this from GC feminists!

Snappity, I know basic comprehension is an issue for you, but just really, really try to understand that the OP isn't being pressured to behave in line with a 'gender'. I appreciate that your religion teaches that everything should be seen through the gender lens, but a parent helping an actual female child accept her sex while presenting however the heck she likes is not a parent forcing a gender on a child.

Now we've cleared that up, do piss off with the creepy threats, there's a love.

Apologies, source of photos is
www.amazon.co.uk/TRANS-Exploring-Identity-Dysphoria-Pulling-ebook/dp/B079NKJ22B?tag=mumsnetforum-21

I am reading the book TRANS: Exploring Gender Identity and Gender Dysphoria: A Guide for Everyone (including professionals)

There are very useful introductory chapters by Dr Az Hakeem

There are also essays by a number of people with different perspectives. One of these is a transman Luka Griffen who set legal precedent in Australia:

In his essay Luka describes the discomfort felt as a young person and then as a teenager during puberty and the associated physical changes

Luka identifies the internet and YouTube specifically as been how he made sense of his feelings. referring to
‘How I knew I was trans’ , ‘Quiz: are you trans?’ and a YouTube video called,‘ How I knew I was transgender (and some advice on coming out)’ by Skylar Kergil which Luka describes as resonating completely with all of his feelings.
Luka describes a moment of epiphany,
"I felt so much relief. Because somebody actually knew how I was feeling, it helped give me a new understanding of myself. Some of the confusion, frustration, and anxiety was easier to deal with, just knowing there were other people in the world who felt like me. It was like a light had been turned on in my mind. I knew I was a transgender man, and I knew that I didn’t want to be called by my birth name."

Having read this essay, I searched YouTube 'Am I transgender?'.

Many of the top rated videos are by young transmen. I watched a few and was struck by how many said, 'If you're asking the question, you probably are'

There are also a great many similarities in these young people's YouTube narratives and advice including 'try out the pronouns and see what happens'. This may primarily be about how the young person feels but would also include the response that they got from the request / requirement of others.

Presumably a follow-up by many might be 'my friends / school / family' won't use my preferred pronoun what should I do?'

source:
]]

The book was mentioned on the thread & I recommend it (profits are for a MH charity):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3303573-This-is-what-the-Portman-Clinic-had-to-say-about-Gender-Transition-in-2002

Snappity

For a child who thinks they are trans, how about........

Some people feel alienated from their sex for a short period of time, others for longer. For some people, using a different name and pronouns helps them feel more comfortable. At the moment, we don't know if the alienation you are experiencing will be short or long lived. Until we do, it is worth keeping all options open.

If you don't have advice on how to get a school to act co-operatively with a parent with a care plan, you have no fucking business being on this thread.

Totally disagree. So far as I am reading on this thread the school has followed watch and wait guidance. Why do you believe the school is wrong?

According to who?

The Royal College of Psychiatrists who say that no child should be pressured to behave in line with the gender assigned at birth.

Refusing to respect a child with a gender identity which doesn't match that assigned at birth is clearly applying the sort of pressure the Royal College advises against.

watching and waiting doesn't mean affirming though.
A teenager being treated as their gender choice is not going to help them work through a difficult period of time.
It's not possible to change sex. It would be incredibly harmful to allow anyone to think that humans can change sex because they want to. I would argue that going along with their wishes would be far more harmful when the info they're getting is from dubious, grooming adults on the Internet.

THE MOTHER HAS A CARE PLAN.

THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE CO-OPERATING WITH PARENTS AND THERAPISTS ON THAT CARE PLAN.

End fucking of.

If you don't have advice on how to get a school to act co-operatively with a parent with a care plan, you have no fucking business being on this thread.

Stop bringing ideology onto this thread. It is a support thread for a mother with a specific problem.

And there's another threat.

If you can monitor the use of the internet thats fine, but tha may be harder than it sounds

Most schools use something like this

www.rm.com/products/online-safety-tools/rm-safetynet

I would hope schools can recommend something equivalent for home Internet connections.

If parents suppress it during childhood with an approach which is all wait and no watch (ie acceptance of a cross-gender identity) then some children will indeed bottle things up then, later in life, find it is something unresolved in their make up which they need to explore and understand. The Trans Widows thread shows how damaging and disruptive that can be later in life.

According to who? Based on what reliable research? How do you know the damaging behaviour in the trans widows thread has anything to do with the type of things you are advising here?

am not saying watch and wait is transphobic - I am recommending it, but watch and wait but watch and wait means that a trans identity should be accommodated and respected - that's the watch part.

According to who?

Snappity. What do you think the best approach is for children who are not trans but think they are? Your position is aimed at supporting persisters not desisters. We need to promote approaches that keep options open.

Watch and wait keeps the options open.

If parents suppress it during childhood with an approach which is all wait and no watch (ie acceptance of a cross-gender identity) then some children will indeed bottle things up then, later in life, find it is something unresolved in their make up which they need to explore and understand. The Trans Widows thread shows how damaging and disruptive that can be later in life.

Sorry just a point about the internet thing

Young person i know has absolutely been groomed online, apparently they 'speak' to a large number of late teens and early twenties transwomen who have all had the full operation

Thats what they have been basing all of their decisions on

Now this young person may well be trans and obviously would benefit from support, but the odds of all these people being that age and having completely transitioned is tiny

Worse still is the idea that one or two of those people are posting in all honesty and the others are not even vaguely trans in the slightest but are enjoying the 'game'

If you can monitor the use of the internet thats fine, but tha may be harder than it sounds

I have worked with many, many young people who have questioned their gender identity. The vast majority have ended up gender conforming. Keeping all options open has been positive for persisters and desisters.

It is natural and normal for adolescents to explore who they are during their teenage years.
The pernicious thing about some trans activists and some trans advocacy/lobbying groups is that they seem to refuse to allow for such exploration. They talk of affirmation but they are really talking about confirmation. Confirming something that is not the case in the vast majority of cases.
Snappity. What do you think the best approach is for children who are not trans but think they are? Your position is aimed at supporting persisters not desisters. We need to promote approaches that keep options open.

Going back to my "mummy I want some cocaine" example from earlier (note that I never actually asked my mother this - I'm not stupid), there have been cases of parents who've responded to that kind of request by giving their child what the child asked for (I've seen some eyebrow raising documentaries about the children of rock stars in the 70s). Does anyone consider that good parenting?

Reasonable people understand that part of the job of a parent is to say no in circumstances where they believe that what the child wants is not good for them. If the child disagrees then they are free to pursue whatever it was that the parent prevented them from doing once they are an adult.

What the hell is this bullshit that a parent's job is to entirely affirm and not challenge their children? I dread to think what kind of coddled brats are being raised by people pushing that rubbish.

This.

And Truthwillwin, you are a great mum.

I'd hate to be the manager of a young person in their first job who'd been given unconditional affirmation and nothing but their entire life.

I'd hate to be the young person too actually, given how quickly they'd get themselves fired.