Using women as human shields

"Letsqueerthingsup"

No. Let's not.

And heaven help you if you step out of line, even inadvertently.

What will really creep you out is when you find out what they mean by "support".

They want the power of knowing they can deliberately be offensive to people women who they secretly despise and still count on their support and for the allies to put the TRAs' feelings ahead of their own.

The logic falls down, doesn't it? The respect only ever goes one way. And the only answer I can ever find is 'privilege'.

This. Exactly.

So concepts like "microaggressions" triggers, "epistemic violence" are being weaponised against GC views both on an individual level (you're making me want to kill myself) and a class level (your views invalidate trans people).

V. good point Eresh . Likewise severely traumatised women in refuges who cannot cope with male bodied people in their spaces, or the many women who have been traumatised by sexual abuse, assault, violence etc and don't feel comfortable in mixed sex changing spaces or accepting medical care from someone with an opposite sexed body.

The logic falls down, doesn't it? The respect only ever goes one way. And the only answer I can ever find is 'privilege'.

Yes that brings us back to the postmodernist critical theory concept of "epistemic violence" and similar terms. The idea is that you should not be allowed to express those views. Sanctions, punishment and physical violence can be justified in return, as Kathleen Stock alludes to.

And c) it's becoming a validated reason to avoid discussion, speaking of facts or presenting of information and view points. You mustn't repeat that news story, or say that word, it makes someone feel unsafe, triggers their trauma. This is really not healthy or even morally ok. However sorry you are for someone's suffering, it cannot be a reason to suppress truth, free speech and facts, particularly when it's heading into being legislation.

To what extent do people have responsibility to put the needs and wishes of total strangers in all situations above their own by manipulating their language, accepting deep discomfort and loss of safety by accepting mixed sex spaces, etc etc?

And what about the mental distress this controlling and domineering sense of entitlement causes victims of actual violence and coercive control? Why don't their feelings matter?

Their ideas of “unsafe” are rather curious aren’t they? Women meeting to discuss their rights in law or disagreeing with your viewpoint is unsafe?

It's the language of trauma therapy and psychology, where 'unsafe' means it causes trauma responses, hence the frequent use of the word 'triggered'. The problem is that while there certainly are trans people who have been very traumatised and distressed by their dysphoria and experiences because of it, and because many experience autism and MH and other additional needs:

a) like the self identifying way of using other clinical language like identifying as Autistic, or being a 'spoonie' (having a chronic illness) when it becomes a common self identified and so freely used term it's questionable in that it dilutes and changes meaning from the original intended language, appropriates experience and removes the significance and extremity of it from others. It's becoming just a fashionable words for offensive, upsetting or 'I don't like that'. People with trauma lose out by that, you can't self ID removing criteria without diluting and removing protection from those who have met a specific and objective testable criteria. The condition that can be self IDd into blurs into losing all meaning, whether that's Autism, trauma, Trans or Woman.

b) I can't see that it's healthy or even practically reasonable for someone with trauma to expect others (apart from parents if it's a child) to manage their triggers for them and to expect all places to be a safe space where they can expect never to be triggered. Not least because no two people's triggers are the same, and a state of mental healthiness is based on the ability to cope with reality. Recovery from trauma is about ownership and responsibility for learning to manage your triggers and to maintain your own state of stress. Personal responsibility is missing here, it's not an empowering or healthy thing to expect care from others, and this is again a big question with self ID. To what extent do people have responsibility to put the needs and wishes of total strangers in all situations above their own by manipulating their language, accepting deep discomfort and loss of safety by accepting mixed sex spaces, etc etc? Why do they have this responsibility to this one specific group when it's not expected for any other vulnerable group in society?

After Bristol the transgenders who were intimidating women on the stairs claimed (falsely) that none of them were mentally strong enough to confront women so everyone there were allies and not transgenders.
More than one were recognized, by the women they were blocking and threatening, despite the masks.

Here's an article about the Wilfrid Laurier University saga as I mentioned earlier. "Epistemic violence" is here constituted by merely expressing gender critical or questioning views:

nationalpost.com/news/canada/campus-lgbt-group-wilfrid-laurier-isnt-going-far-enough-to-silence-climate-of-transphobia

I love Miranda - that's a great picture!

Here you go

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228481-Cis-allies-being-asked-to-provide-protection

I started a thread on this issue a little while back - it might have been after Bristol

I'll see if I can find it (unless R0wantrees beats me to it )

Again while looking for something else. Some wise words from the awesome Kathleen Stock:

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1002522440684261376?s=20

The poor trans women were obviously concerned that their 'lady dicks' would shrivel up in the cold.

I'll find a link to the Epistemic Violence statement.

I think this the protest outside a meeting of feminists on a freezing night which only had female born trans allies turn up to scream at attendees. Male born people are too delicate and need the females to protect then from extreme weather. i2.wp.com/peaktrans.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Miranda-with-protesters.jpg

There seemed to be a predominance of young women activists outside the Brighton venue when I arrived for the WPUK. They were also the ones handing out leaflets.

It's mind boggling that they would actively support men that seek the erasure of their spaces and even the language they use to describe themselves. The sheer level of the gas lighting involved is astounding.

Epistemic Violence

Wow. Not heard this.

Even Katelyn Burns admitted it wasn't about physical threat, despite trying pathetically to claim radical feminists were a threat to trans people based on an incident that happened 40 years ago.