Trans women are women, is the biggest oxymoron ever written.

barrack, think that clears it all up nicely.

BarrackerBarmer

Just as we cis women are women. Once the identity deniers stop seeking to divide women against each other, we may just be able to refer to ‘women’.

"We cis women"?

I'm not sure who you are referring to with your royal 'we', but I identify as an afab trans woman, (sometimes referred to by society as a trans transwoman) but it is my preference that you refer to me simply as 'woman'. You are a cis ciswoman, trans women are cis transwomen. It is well known that afab trans women are doubly more oppressed than amab trans women (cis transwomen) and our voices must be even more centred.

Please do not be an identity denier. Be a good ally to afab transwomen, call us women, and use the pronouns and nouns we have fought to hard for. Check your privilege.

Unfortunately, it is precisely the instabilities in the status quo, due to increasing societal misogyny as well as the logical inconsistencies in the GRA and the Equality Act, that have brought us here.

Exactly.

My dear thebewilderness, you may wish to reflect on the fact that your idea of feminist is but slightly shared irl.

Tryingtolisten2 I applaud your patience, resilience, and humanity. It can’t be easy. Yet I am sure there will be some unbigoted women, reading your contributions yet not daring to speak themselves, who will be influenced by what you write. Thank you.

Delendaest
When your first post under this name refers to women as "cis" and you pretend you are unable to grasp the difference between males and females the likelihood of anyone taking you seriously on a Feminist site is about a minus three.

Unfortunately, if the government does not get to see how TS think about this because they mostly stay silent then they will decide their policy based on weighing both extremes together.

The extremes in this sentence are women and girls who want their safety and privacy respected as opposed to the males who want to strip women of their right to privacy and dignity.
We see you.

That was in response to the post before yours, Betty.

Always interesting to hear the handmaiden's perspective on things. Useless, like tits on a bull, but interesting.

Until transwomen can get women’s cancers and have babies, we’ll need a differentiator, sure.

That’ll be because trans women are women, I expect. Just as we cis women are women. Once the identity deniers stop seeking to divide women against each other, we may just be able to refer to ‘women’. Until then, I fear we shall still need these prefixes.

I just hope the women on here who can see past such things - and I know there are plenty - will get why I am not going to waste more tine trying to help and am going back to Twitter where at least people are willing to engage without seeking sinister undertones to things that are meant entirely reasonably.

That happens to you a lot, doesn't it. Women read what you say instead of what you mean.

I am rather astonished to see you claim that you have been here to help, anyone but yourself. I guess that is me reading what you write instead of what you mean. Again.

Yet another thread where snappity fails to make a constructive contribution.

I found some of your posts (I haven't read all of them) interesting and useful, and I think your POV is one which the policymakers need to listen to rather than the TRAs, home.

Sinister and veiled threats?

I just hope the women on here who can see past such things - and I know there are plenty - will get why I am not going to waste more tine trying to help and am going back to Twitter where at least people are willing to engage without seeking sinister undertones to things that are meant entirely reasonably.

homefromthehills, I find your posts sinister and full of veiled threats.

And tryingtolisten2, you may be fighting ‘peacefully’ but many TRA’s are not, as I think everyone who isn’t living in a parallel universe must know.

Surely, according to trans ideology (or what I understand of it), the phrase ‘transwomen are women’ (or ‘real’ women) is an oxymoron anyway? Like ‘economy comfort’!

Just for some reason today I let my guard down and read too much. I should know better.

Scrolling is your friend!

I'm usually the same, Lang. I enjoy talking to other women about stuff, that's what I like about fwr.

Just for some reason today I let my guard down and read too much. I should know better.

I've given up reading novel-length posts. It seems to take an awful lot of words to tell me I should budge up for this group or that group or this faction or that faction.

I just want to talk to women.

Ah, yes of course. Because I don't care for the way two transpeople have derailed a thread to talk about who is the most trans, I am responsible for self id.

It's nothing to do with misogyny, it's nothing to do with the fact that women are supposed to budge up and stop centering themselves.

There are thousands of places you two could have had that conversation, but you decided to have it here where women want to talk about women and our experiences.

Stop claiming that it's women's fault self id is being considered. Own it, you are responsible, not me.

Unfortunately, Zutt, such a response is probably why self ID will get passed this autumn....something I suspect neither of us want.

Any chance of persuading more sensible TS to leave their lonf established comfort zone of quiet anonymity and speak out in public will vanish if they feel that tryintolisten2 is right and they are just the enemy regardless.

I have seen plenty ask on here or social media why more sensible trans people do not speak up if they really exist.

They DO exist but neither side really want to hear what we have to say for totally different reasons.

So there is no incentive to out themselves and become hate figures all round. They just get on with living and hope it sorts itself out. Its easier than speaking out.

The result is we end up with a very polarised debate.

Unfortunately, if the government does not get to see how TS think about this because they mostly stay silent then they will decide their policy based on weighing both extremes together.

And likely come up with an unsatisfactory fudge that works only to annoy everyone.

The precedent with this government is there - see Brexit.

Anyway, back to the original question

If trans women are women, then why do the words trans women exist?

The word needs to exist so they can talk about themselves exclusively while taking over feminist and women's spaces.