Trans women are women, is the biggest oxymoron ever written.

Am a scientist. Not that that should make any difference but there has been no change whatsoever to any biology or medical textbooks.
Professionals are willing to be polite, but nothing has fundamentally changed. I use the term ‘female’ and ‘sex’ instead of gender. Just for total clarity.
Intersex conditions are completely separate matters and don’t have anything to do with transgenderism.

I think ideas of defining and categorising are being used at cross purposes.

When categorising people by sex, the category fails to make any sense when including males in the category 'females' and females in the category 'males'. If sex is not significant to a given context, it makes sense not to use this form of categorisation.

The traditional definition of women allows the term 'woman' to be used to label those that fit in to the category 'female'. If the definition is changed to include transwomen, the definition can no longer be used interchangeably with the category 'female'.

We live in a sexist society that disadvantages females and a prejudiced society that discriminates against transwomen, but those two experiences are not the same. To put those two separate groups under one umbrella definition will result in not getting good data about the people in those two separate groups in order to tackle those two problems.
Other problems will also arise, such as the definition of 'lesbian', young lesbians are likely to be confused and feel shame in being told they have a fetish for vaginas because they reject a penis. Or by not accepting transwomen as sexual partners is equal to being transphobic.
This is a very dangerous road to plough down.

I’m sure all the transwomen you know are lovely. The transwomen I know are too.

It's the non-lovely ones that concern me - and the predatory men who will use self-id to further their nasty aims.

Homefromthehills - what a sensible person you are. I like your posts.

breton

I’m sure all the transwomen you know are lovely. The transwomen I know are too.

Their demands for self ID will open up all spaces to be unisex.

That will harm women and children.

Their individual niceness doesn’t stop that.

I am arguing to expand the definition of women to include both AHF and transwomen.

So now give an actual definition, then - saying 'women = AHF and transwomen' is NOT a "definition". It's a claim and an unevidenced one at that.

If transwomen are women then I an XX adult are not.

So explain that picture, Breton?

Glitched, please can you answer my question?
Aside from innate gender identity, which I and the vast majority of other women don’t possess, what is it that I have in common with all other women and transwomen but not men?

But do you believe humans can change sex?

If you don’t, your expanded definition covers both sexes. We already have a word for that: People.

Why does your expanded definition cover both sexes? It’s incorrect biologically and it’s illogical.

Hermione
Those people really just want to “pee in peace” in the ladies loo?
That’s sheer provocation, nothing more.

If you believe that transwomen are women then how do you define ‘woman’? It’s a really simple question but no one can ever answer it.

The trans people I have spoken to want to be free from transphobia and hate crime. I fully support their legal right to be defined as women under the Gender Recognition act - it is the law. They want to live their lives in peace. They bear no animosity to women nor a desire to infiltrate spaces where some women require sanctuary from males, unless they require that same sanctuary. This is just my experience and my beliefs, you are entitled to your own.

Ok. So those saying 'biology' this is covered by adult human female.

I am not suggesting that transwomen are adult human females.

I am arguing to expand the definition of women to include both AHF and transwomen.

Of course they are male, Breton. They may wish not to be male but they are still male. What do people think male and female actually are? Just a costume that you can discard if you don't like it?

Miranda Yardley, a transgender person who identifies as a woman, openly admits that he is male. Are you saying he is mistaken about that? Miranda goes by he/him as pronouns by the way MNHQ.

Personally, I can’t see what risk these trans women would face using men’s facilities. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

Agree, if females and trans women are all women, define women and trans women.

In reply to Bowl's question "Glitched do you believe humans can change sex?"

You said That's a complex question to answer.

With current medical technology, no. In the future. Maybe.

Which demonstrates a spectacular ignorance of biology.

And before you start waffling on about intersex you’re in a thread with at least one working scientist.

Also don't post that Nature Op Ed. We have been down that road before.

How are you defining sex

The way science defines it.

A woman is an adult human female where female is the class which bears live young and produces ova.

There is no other definition of sex

You’re welcome to nip up to the Pennines and give different definitions of sex to a hill farmer. Or to a dairy farm. Be prepared for polite bafflement.

Rather than arguing that transwomen are exactly the same as adult human females, when they evidently aren't, we expand the definition of woman to include both adult human females and transwomen.

Who expands the definition? And why can't the definition of man be expanded to include transwomen, given that transwomen are in fact men (because if they were men, and weren't transitioning from being men, then they wouldn't be 'transwomen' they would just be women).

Glitched
For that to work as a legal definition you would also need to have a definition for 'adult human female' and 'transwomen'. What are they?

It depends how the question is defined!!! The question was very very clear, Glitched, you just can’t answer it