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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

regressive and (actually transphobic) supporters of the "woman's place" position

110 replies

drwitch · 23/07/2018 12:18

This is just a suggestion that perhaps we should be careful about retweeting and linking articles that are from the socially conservative viewpoint. writing by people Paul Embrey or Brendan O'Neil and many articles in the Daily Mail for example will often include lots that I agree with but there will be a couple of remarks that suggest that it is the non-conformity that bothers them rather than the need to provide sex based exemptions. It is a very thin line between a justification of safe spaces for women because of the interaction between physical differences and historic oppression and one that thinks women are just delicate flowers that shouldn't say boo to a goose. I think some article on the right get the balance wrong so we should watch out

On a similar note I think the concentration on bathrooms is dangerous it smacks too much of trumps bathroom ban, we should talk more about women only short lists, refuges, sports and pay monitioring

OP posts:
garam · 23/07/2018 14:05

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OvaHere · 23/07/2018 13:55

It is nonsense but when "a women places" retweets paul embrey - he of the "its hypocritical to care about families in the context of border separations but support the repeal of clause 8 in ireland" (paraphrase) -fame it does not look good

I'm not aware of Paul Embrey's views on every subject but neither him or O' Neil are on the Right. Embrey is a Labour trade unionist as are founding members of WPUK so if they are retweeting him that will be the connection.

I understand where you are coming from and certainly don't think that anything that comes from the US fundie right wing is helpful, in fact I'm not sure that anything US based is that helpful in debate about UK politics because our political systems and culture are quite different.

I don't really subscribe to the idea that someone has to hold 100% of the same political opinions as me for their comment to be deemed worthy. I feel that sort of thing is half of why we are in a bit of a mess currently in all sorts of areas as it leads to political tribalism.

It is important to read things carefully before deciding if you endorse the POV, I agree with that much.

There was a Spectator article last week by Barry Humphries that discussed transgenderism and whilst I agreed with and shared Kirkup's piece from the same edition I didn't with Humphries because I felt it was a bit disparaging towards TG people even though he was essentially saying what many here have pointed out.

Indierockandroll · 23/07/2018 13:14

Wanderabout - I think it was from December. She owns it. She always does.

drwitch · 23/07/2018 12:42

so does everybody agree?

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 23/07/2018 12:39

Ooh I missed Bindel!

Indierockandroll · 23/07/2018 12:36

Thankfully she put everyone back on bloody track!

Indierockandroll · 23/07/2018 12:35

The doctor who appeared on This Morning with MB did not come across well and religion was used as the main argument for his 'belief' so yes, there needs to be care in presenting this as fact based.

The toilet issue can be used to trivialise bigger matters (even Julie Bindel's interview with Richard Madely was diverted onto toilets thanks to Richard's 'expert' analysis).

nauticant · 23/07/2018 12:29

Your first paragraph is more subtle than your title suggests! (And I agree with it.)

I definitely agree with your second paragraph. You only need to see how keen trans allies are to move the conversation onto "bathroom bans". Any opponent is likely to be called a bathroom obsessive and being seen to argue over this issue can work as a massive turn-off to passers-by.

drwitch · 23/07/2018 12:27

It is nonsense but when "a women places" retweets paul embrey - he of the "its hypocritical to care about families in the context of border separations but support the repeal of clause 8 in ireland" (paraphrase) -fame it does not look good

OP posts:
busyboysmum · 23/07/2018 12:23

I have seen suggestions on Twitter that womens groups are funded by far right religious groups which is just nonsense as we all know.

However I agree that the toilets issue is the lesser problem. Actually TW should be fine in male or female toilets, I don't think that toilets in the UK are particularly dangerous places at the moment. This is because they are single sex and males do not as a general principal have access to female toilets. The issue with toilets is that we don't get so used to seeing males in female toilets that they are no longer safe for anyone.

Prisons, hospital wards, AWS and sports for me is where the issue can be most clearly seen. And of course it is easy enough to monitor whether someone is male or female here.

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