regressive and (actually transphobic) supporters of the "woman's place" position

Garam, why do you choose to frame the defence of protections and rights of women and girls as an "unrelenting barrage of hate and abuse towards the trans community". Please explain. Thank you.

Oh god. Let's not have garam successfully derail yet another thread. Back on topic:

Apart from anything else, there will be women who have serious concerns about self-ID who are themselves conservatives. If we agree on this one thing then we can work on it together, even if we don't agree on other things.

Exactly. Are only left wing women allowed an opinion on this?

So Garam you are making generalised statements that you are unable to support with any real evidence?

And yet still no answer as to whether 2D + 69 = L.

As in:

Of course, including all women, trans and 'not-trans'.

garam Do you include all the people that Stonewall do in your definition of 'trans'?

If not, then who do you include?

Garam "Some women's groups such as WPUK, TransgenderTrend, Fairplayforwomen, seem to exclusively campaign around limiting trans rights, and scarcely do any other actual campaigning for women rights and broader feminist ideals, these are the anti-trans women groups."

Which "trans rights" are being limited here, please? Please be very specific, Thank you.

[And, have you actually read anything on any of those web sites, where it is made very clear that all those involved respect and uphold transpeople's current rights?]

I'm still waiting to hear which "rights" trans people currently don't have or which some women's groups are trying to limit.

Are you pro-women, garam? Do you believe women should have their rights and protections upheld and enforced? Do you believe women have the right to their own boundaries? Do you believe women have the right to say no?

Of course, including all women, trans and 'not-trans'.

Are you pro-women, garam? Do you believe women should have their rights and protections upheld and enforced? Do you believe women have the right to their own boundaries? Do you believe women have the right to say no?

Hoppinggreen

Begone! Rightwing women are not women

I will happily stand beside anyone who is genuinely defending the protections and rights of girls and women against this current onslaught.

I was lucky enough to attend on if the women’s place meetings and the overall position was most certainly Leftist in terms of politics.
I’m quite Right wing but also a Feminist, which some people may think I’m not allowed to be

Garam please can you explain why you frame the defence of protections and rights of women and girls as being "anti-trans"? Thank you.

Let's not be diverted into squabbling amongst ourselves until after the current danger has been averted.

Absolutely. And it what the TRAs are trying to do. Divide and conquer - age old tactic.

You might be unhappy with it but others might not. Others might be unhappy platforming gender critical transsexuals. Some might not care as long as the message is being shouted as loud as possible.

This. I don't go for purity politics at all. It's the fastest way to get nothing done.

It seems pretty obvious to me that, since women make up slightly more than half the population, there are going to be plenty of women across the entire political spectrum who realise their rights, and the rights of their mothers, grandmothers, daughters and granddaughters are under serious threat.
Which makes it equally obvious that there will be concern expressed and similar opinions aired by groups of people who very rarely find themselves thinking along the same lines on other subjects.
Let's not be diverted into squabbling amongst ourselves until after the current danger has been averted.

Ultimately this isn't a partisan issue - it effects all women.

Thanks Indie

On the other hand, the Right-leaning Conservative Hard-Brexiteer, Julia Hartley-Brewer, does a fantastic job on the Trans question, on her Talk Radio programmes. She cuts through bull-s*hit and bluster on Twitter.

On this issue, at least, she echoes the very same arguments as left-leaning radical feminists. She destroys trans interviewees. You wouldn't be able to tell this Right Wing Woman from radical feminists.

Strangely, she doesn't get half as much stick as Radical Feminists - presumably because the 'woke' wouldn't dream of following her. I imagine that she could be a thorn in the side of Conservative women cabinet members, since she is the Voice of conservatism.

but I have no more in common with a socially conservative thinker that worries if a man wears a dress

I don't think the majority of posters here do have that in common either, I don't care if men want to wear dresses or skirts. I would add though that the question of whether some men will accept other men who are are gender non conforming is not our battle and up to them (as a class) to sort out for themselves.