Rod Liddle Times 22/7Meanwhile the transgender lobby still on its surreal march to deny reality'

And the women’s clothes rarely have pockets, let alone proper pockets.

The problem is that the clothes in the women’s department have been designed to match an idea of femininity which does not fit with me. Anybody who doesn’t understand this is either incredibly thick, incredibly deluded, or both.

And when you can find one that fits - it is covered in frills and flounces.

Fuck that shit.

I have real trouble finding clothes I want to wear. Most of the stuff in the women’s department, that would fit me properly, is highly gendered and doesn’t match my needs. I could go to the men’s department but the clothing would be cut to fit a male bodied person, not a 5.2 woman with a 32G bra size. The problem here is not my body, my body is not a social construct. The problem is that the clothes in the women’s department have been designed to match an idea of femininity which does not fit with me. Anybody who doesn’t understand this is either incredibly thick, incredibly deluded, or both.
Just to break it down, for those of you who do not have a female body, when I try on a shirt from the men’s section it gapes across my tits, but if I go up a size it’s shapeless and baggy around my middle. It’s not a good look, and it doesn’t feel very comfortable. It doesn’t make me feel good about myself when I go out in ill fitting clothing. Consequently my sartorial options are quite limited, and it’s not because my body is the wrong shape.

I wear ‘mens’ t shirts with the sleeves cut off.

I declare my gender as ‘Bonne Bon Jovi’

(Still wouldn’t buy that shirt or have dinner with RL, NG, nor OJ, mind you)

I’m greatly cheered to discover that Rod Liddle is reading this forum, along with James Kirkup, Brendan O’Neill and others.

LangCleg’s point about the grooming gangs is excellent.

"That person must be wrong because he's a dick, therefore anyone who agrees with him on anything is wrong" is thinking worthy of a pre-pubescent child. Like seriously, going by Piaget's model I don't think anyone claiming this would even have reached the level of development of the average 10 year old. That's just embarrassing if coming from an adult.

I bet Liddle believes that gravity exists and that for that reason jumping off tall buildings without a parachute, bungee cord etc is a bad idea too. And I would agree with that. Burn the witch!

And this mens cut pisses me off

As its the default

No, see, the reason that my tshirts need to be shaped differently to those worn by my DH is that I have massive boobs and he does not

Just what i was thinking angry

Cant believe someone is now explaining how clothes and gender work to the FWR board

I would say get thee to style and beauty, but you won't make it out alive

But with most t-shirt retailers, women's-cut t-shirts (where a specific style/logo/message is available in either a men's or women's style) only go up to a size 16, because fat women are unwomen and should hide their shame in a men's style xxxl tent rather than having a more flattering style available.

Looking forward to the natural progression then and we eventually get a thread that says 'Yes, Nick Griffin is a bit of a twit but he's right about trans people, let's applaud him on that one.'

I remember when Nick Griffin went on Question Time and it was a national theatre for righteous vilification. And, of course, if you aren't a far right racist, as none of us here are, presumably (hopefully), then you approved of the vilification. He deserved nothing more. We all felt good about it.

So, when he started talking about industrial sex abuse of girls by Pakistani gangs, everybody was outraged at his disgusting racist lies. The entire panel was outraged, including Jack Straw, the Home Secretary of the time, who would have been aware of the grooming gang situation. We were encouraged to believe that Nick Griffin was telling lies about grooming gangs by people who knew he wasn't telling lies.

All these things were true:

Nick Griffin is a disgusting far right racist.
Nick Griffin was telling the truth about grooming gangs.
The Home Office is not full of disgusting far right racists.
The Home Office probably misled us about the extent of grooming gangs.

This is how far right backlashes occur. If the only people allowed to tell the truth are the far right, the far right attracts support. And, I would have thought, one of the few things that the Followers of Gender and GC feminists can actually agree on is that a far right backlash would be a very bad thing indeed.

No, see, the reason that my tshirts need to be shaped differently to those worn by my DH is that I have massive boobs and he does not.

I know - TITS - WAIST - HIPS = DIFFERENT CUT OF MATERIAL.

Who knew eh?

Well, everyone obvs.

No, see, the reason that my tshirts need to be shaped differently to those worn by my DH is that I have massive boobs and he does not.

Hope that helps!

The Trans lobby are really showing up gender ideology for the ridiculousness that it is. The more people who know about it the better. People like RL have a wide reaching audience so it is very good it is being talked about.

Actually, that kind of thinking is extremely common with the woke dudes and is exactly why we are in this mess.

It appears to be how we are teaching in the universities these days. Which is why nobody has an actual argument apart from saying 'you are wrong' or 'you are mean'.

I amusingly wrote essays about people I didn't like, both agreeing with their points and disagreeing depending on the point, not the person.

If any of you are truly gender critical; you'll know that a women's t-shirt is in no way inherently belonging to women. It's just that our society decided to cut t-shirt thst way to emphasise certain aesthetics.

How strange, then, that this GNC woman is physically more comfortable in a t-shirt cut to accommodate the physical realities of the female body.

Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day!

You’re aware I hope that the world isn’t divided into goodies and baddies, each nicely identified for you so you can either praise them to the stars or twitter pile on them?

In fact there are people in my life - my own family, among my friends where we argue very robustly on certain subjects. If you have a zero tolerance for different opinions/positions, you will either be alone or surrounded by people who are afraid to know their own minds.

babelfish
I agree - too many fall into that childish POV on MN (not in the wider population though)

If any of you are truly gender critical; you'll know that a women's t-shirt is in no way inherently belonging to women. It's just that our society decided to cut t-shirt thst way to emphasise certain aesthetics.

Otherwise known as the good old social construct that is...... Gender!

It is Bumbungo. It's extremely childish.

That was a general comment, not to anyone in particular.

You’re aware I hope that the world isn’t divided into goodies and baddies, each nicely identified for you so you can either praise them to the stars or twitter pile on them?

Actually, that kind of thinking is extremely common with the woke dudes and is exactly why we are in this mess.

Oh and if that's the best argument you've got against what Liddle actually says, that he's a bad person, I'd see that as concerning for your position and maybe have a little think about it all, personally.

This “ooooh, bad people say the same as you, that means you’re wrong and a bad person” is so childish. It offers no argument. It also doesn’t seem to work both ways - there are some truly awful people saying “transwomen are women” and yet we are not allowed to simply dismiss the statement based on their awfulness (not that we would, there are plenty of real reasons to dismiss that statement)

This. If most commentators on the left hadn't abandoned women as too low in their hierarchy of virtue signalling, if they didn't sneer at legitimate concerns, if they didn't ignore, minimise and dismiss misogyny, threats, abuse and actual violence from transactivists and their allies then we would be able to seek their support.

And yes, why don't we get to dismiss the TWAW position based on the appalling behaviour of many of the people who hold it and the unwillingness to challenge it by so called "progressives"?

Looking forward to the natural progression then and we eventually get a thread that says 'Yes, Nick Griffin is a bit of a twit but he's right about trans people, let's applaud him on that one.'

You’re aware I hope that the world isn’t divided into goodies and baddies, each nicely identified for you so you can either praise them to the stars or twitter pile on them?

There are people I admire (Germaine Greer for example) where I don’t agree with 100% of what they say. There are people I dislike intensely who are right occasionally (Micheal Gove - no massive fan of his but he was right about free speech and no platforming.)

The need to categorise everyone into absolute good or evil and praise/vilify accordingly is a trait most associated in adults with cluster B personality disorders. No rational adult agrees with 100% of what any other adult says/believes. That’d just be weird.

I do not particularly like rod little. However On this occasion, he is correct.