Rod Liddle Times 22/7Meanwhile the transgender lobby still on its surreal march to deny reality'

I don't follow what the Levi's jean problem is.
Men's jeans give massive waist gape on pear or hour shaped women.

Meh. Don't give the stirrer what they want.

I don't follow what the Levi's jean problem is. The very few trousers I've ever owned were men's Levi jeans. Men's waist 26 fitted a size 8. Levi's didn't really make women's jeans in the 70s. They had pockets, including that daft wee watch fob pocket, but if they fitted properly you couldn't really put much in them.

Should we be asking Your if 2D + 69 = L too?

What have transwomen transitioned from, if not men?

It is and (I fear) will ever remain a mystery.

Also we are not and were never men; even if other people really want to believe otherwise.

What have transwomen transitioned from, if not men?

If any of you are truly gender critical;

For Fuck's sake - yes, please do come and tell us what being gender critical is truly, while you're at it go ahead and explain feminism to us. I won't be reading it but at least it will keep you busy for a while.

More than 2 genders - whatever, I don't believe in gender anyway. Only 2 biological sexes.

I didn't know we had a lobby.

Well then ... where HAVE you been? There is definitely a lobby, several lobbies (how did you think the proposals to change the law came about? Fairy whispering in the ears of MPs) or did you miss Mermaids, GIRES, and activists protesting women's meetings and so on and on... and on.

Some thoughtful and thought-provoking comments here. And, no. They were not made by YourFriendly.

vole

Dh used to have a paid of tracksuit bottoms that had FBI down the side

(Stood for Fosters Boys International )

Another point on garment labelling (sorry for the derail but what about the menz?)- my former DH was about 5'6" and skinny wiry but you look for mens pants in 'small' - they don't exist! They start at 'medium'. Used to make me laugh.

Pepperberry

I dont think they do hawaii patterns though

hotrocker

My dh never has a problem buying trousers and jeans in a 28/29 leg

I could, but then I’d have to shell out for the shirt, then shell out to get it altered. I can’t do it myself because I am severely lacking in very important sensory capacity to do it.
Actually Levi’s was one of the places I was looking at Hawaiian shirts. The women’s version was a low-cut blouse with fuzzy patterns and pastel colours, which is not what I want at all. They do do 501s for women, but I’m very short and they only do my leg length in one colour.
If I’m ranting, the other problem I have is getting trousers to fit. I frequently have to go in what is annoyingly called the ’petite section,’ where they have a smaller selection than you’d otherwise find if you weren’t a short arse. I mean short women are hardly uncommon, so why only cater for women taller than 5.5? I noticed most men’s trousers go down to a 30 inch leg, which I’m guessing would be fine for someone about 5.5, and obviously men who are shorter than that would struggle, but I doubt there are more men below that height than women. They also don’t patronise shorter men by having a petite section. I can bet men wouldn’t like to be called petite.

Another vote for HotRocker to buy a too big ‘mens’ shirt and get it retailored.

I learned to sew a bit (mostly so I could add pockets to my existing clothes but also because I am fussy and dramatic) but lots of independent tailors/dressmakers still exist and are usually very reasonable price wise. Local area Facebook groups are good for recommendations.

I’ve been trying to find a Hawaiian shirt.

Can you size up in a men’s one for yer norks and get it taken in around the waist/put darts in for fit? To be honest, it’s what I have to do in women’s shirts because my norks are so much bigger than my waist. Darts are your friend.

I threw a tantrum in the Levis shop when I discovered that mens Levis have proper, deep pockets, a proper, high waist and are made of 100%cotton.

Even more laughably, they're easier to get in a short leg length (WTF Levis?!) and are roughly thirty quid cheaper. In short:

Dear Women,

Fuck you.

Sincerely, Levis.

Y'all need some of these you un-woke fuckers.

Clothes shopping with my DD is fun.... similar to hotrocker, with well developed shoulders and muscles as a result of windsurfing. Teenage girls (or women in general) aren't meant to have those. So, she's limited to a small subsection of women's clothes - but never men's or boys (prepuberty 'boys' were fine for many purposes).

The t-shirt is funny because it's right. As many 'genders' as you can imagine, why not. But two sexes.

Ooo! If there are more than two genders, we could have more than just the boxy-yet-practical men's styles and the contoured-yet-impractical women's styles. How about pan style, contoured to accommodate the female body, but with proper pockets and no ridiculous frippery trims? Or ace style, contoured to accommodate the female body, but cut so that you don't expose yourself every time you bend over or reach upwards?

(God knows whether I'm using the correct gender-terms. Teen dd burbles on about Ace and Pan.)

The boob gape was the bane of my bloody existence when I had a job where I had to wear suits and button up shirts to work.

Gender Free World is a shop specialising in shirts cut for any body shape without imposing little frilly flounces and pink flowers on the ones cut for a body shape that includes boobs. Also includes extra fastenings to eliminate boob-gape between shirt buttons.

Well quite Tells, or it so low cut people can see right down my cleavage, or the material is flimsy, or the pockets are barely big enough for a nail file, or the colours are muted and boring, or the pictures and logos have been sanitised and girlified to look like something a child would wear.
This summer I’ve been trying to find a Hawaiian shirt. The closest thing I can find in the women’s section are low cut blouses, and the colours and patterns are toned right down. I’ve been through every men’s section in town to find one that fits me but they all look awful. Weirdly enough my reaction was to be angry at the clothes manufacturers, for not producing anything equivalent for the women, not to conclude that actually I must have been born into the wrong body and that it’s my body that’s the mistake here.

Pepperberry has the best shirts for big boobs

Thats an actual fact...not just me yelling fact at the end of my post

(Womens shirts obviously but they fit for the tit)

I've recently been seeing tshirts with flounces on the sleeves. For the love of god, why? It's a practical garment made of cotton.

That's gender. Not a mysterious inner feeling, a societal imposition that often makes very little sense.

I was always a skinny rat with no backside, no waist and precious little in the way of tits. So men's clothes suited me fine. Now I'm middle-aged and a bit on the saggy side, plus I've grown a backside and some tits. It has been a great shock to be funnelled into pocketless women's clothes. It all seems most unfair.