Another Girlguiding update

Men think this sort of thing out, bd67th, it's no coincidence. Thank you for the flowers. Here's some for you.

And thanks for the kind wishes, ChattyLion.

Safeguarding - it's so yesterday, isn't it?

Supposition time. Let's imagine....

Imagine, at some point in the future, that the worst DOES actually happen and a female Girl Guide is sexually assaulted at a camp by someone with a male physique, when her parents had no idea that a self-ID transgirl or transwoman with a male physique would be present.

What would be the legal standing for GG?

Obviously there would be criminal charge against the perpetrator.

But would GG be open for criminal charges? Would they be held legally responsible for the actions of the perpetrator, bearing in mind that both the attacked girl and her parents believed that she was in a safe environment? What would be the charges? Would they simply pass the buck onto the leadership of the individual troupe involved, or would GG the organisation have to carry the can? They should, it's them who are implementing this, but would they be able to throw their leaders under the bus?

Also, does anyone know if there would be any difference if the perp was a transgirl, or an adult? Age of criminal responsibility is 10, isn't it?

@prawnofthepatriarchy

I also did not scream because my rapist was my then-bf who woke me up by raping me, I was in denial of what was happening, and I did not wish to wake our flatmate.

I too can see how the desire to safeguard the girls from seeing a sexual assault would be weaponised by a rapist against a guide leader, or even one of the girls.

When I was a young teen we had a mixed camping out (bivouacking) session. There was about 15 of us and both male and female teachers. I slept beside my male bodied and female bodied classmates. I woke up with my feet on one boy in our sleeping bags. There was no ‘sexual undercurrent’ or male intimidation at play. We were kids and knew what was expected of us.

And when I was 15, my best friend was sexually assaulted on the way home from school by 3 classmates. She kept this to herself until we were in our late THIRTIES because she was so fucking traumatised by it. It's coloured her whole life, I might add.

Fact: teenage boys that you know can be predatory sex offenders.

@AppleKatie did you get any sense of what leaders will be doing "under the radar" to safeguard girls and women at residentials?

And that poor trans identifying leader. How much distress they must be in, and now to be excluded. Shame on GG.

When I was a young teen we had a mixed camping out (bivouacking) session. There was about 15 of us and both male and female teachers. I slept beside my male bodied and female bodied classmates. I woke up with my feet on one boy in our sleeping bags. There was no ‘sexual undercurrent’ or male intimidation at play. We were kids and knew what was expected of us.

Whereas when I was a teen I went on a big camp and, in a tent, in the daytime, I was sexually assaulted by another Scout.
It happens. Just because it didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it will never happen. Teenagers are sexual beings.

... also denial and failing to access the Morning After pill?

Perspicacia

That's really interesting. Lots of unanswered questions about risky behaviour, rape and coercion

Research showing that LGB (not sure about the T) young people are twice as likely to get pregnant than their straight peers, suggests that GG might be underestimating the risks and that condoms may not be the answer (surprise).

www.reuters.com/article/us-pregnancy-teen-lgbt/pregnancies-more-common-among-lesbian-gay-bisexual-youths-idUSKBN0NZ2AT20150514

Floral

Quite

Trans girls and teen boys are entirely different, eh? A 15 yo male body with no medical or surgical intervention (please God, at that age!) is exactly the same whether the owner thinks he's a boy or a girl.

Anyone who doesn't agree is beyond deluded.

I have no idea the mental gymnastics required to get from advising on teenage pregnancy to mixed sex teen camping without parental consent though

This.

As far as I know, the official line is that trans girls and teenage boys are completely different.

But when pressed for clarification, the answer is that's enough, we're not talking about it anymore.

They also responded to a query about autogynephilia. Saying something like there's nothing they can do about that, as they don't ask people whether they have a fetish. Which, whilst no doubt true, is hardly reassuring.

How can you acknowledge the possibility that you are exposing children to a male fetish on the one hand, and then agree that there is nothing you can do about it on the other?

Am pretty sure the NSPCC also veer to the ‘trans girls are girls’ side of the safeguarding bandwagon. Which is something of a concern as it leaves girls with no one willing to centre their rights and safety. I would love for more parents to email the NSPCC and ask them their stance on this though.

Goo idea re whistleblowing to the NSPCC.

Totally. I have no idea the mental gymnastics required to get from advising on teenage pregnancy to mixed sex teen camping without parental consent though. I’d love to take her out for a nice cup of tea and ask her. It must be an explanation without compare.

Girl Guides have been completely suckered in by this woman. They could easily have remained single sex, and trans inclusive, by including females identifying as trans/NB/GNC.

Whoever has or is taking over will be overseeing the demise of the organisation as more leaders drop out as they cannot in good conscience go along with such a dangerous policy, and members/parents who were seeking single sex groups, for all the reasons Agnes has posted about. If they think for a second that parents will go along with transwomen stepping in to fill the breach when volunteers say no more, they'll be unlikely to find many parents willing to entrust their children to these people in the same way they currently do with the women volunteers. Especially as there's no proper safeguarding to deal with this, and I'd not trust for a second any transwoman who went along with this. Any transwoman who sees this opportunity as a way to validate themselves, rather than accept the strict safeguarding and risk assessments that Girl Guides apply to male volunteers, is not someone who should be within 100 feet of girls aged 5 - 18, under any circumstances.

I assume her intent was that the pregnancy thing would be mitigated by handing out condoms

How on earth does that work in practice?
hey, your sturdy pyjamas look a little tent-shaped, here, have condom

I have a pro-tip to share. Condoms are not required where people with penises, no matter how they 'identify', are excluded. Simples.

Threw

And still she opened the doors. And three girls and young women under the gender bus.

Julie Bentley’s previous job was at the Family Planning Association. She’s advised the government on teenage pregnancy ffs. I’m pretty sure she knows where babies come from. I have zero clue how she keeps that thought in her head without recognizing even some of the concerns around mixed sex groups. It’s mind-boggling. I assume her intent was that the pregnancy thing would be mitigated by handing out condoms, rather than keeping the organization single sex. There is no way she can possibly be naive enough to not have considered relationships at best, adusuve behaviour at worst.

It's the relentless hoop jumping that gets me.

Right women, here is how you level the playing field. First of all, forget about most sport, just stick to gymnastics and invent an entirely new event called ducking under the bar. Also wear sturdy pyjamas, preferably made of chainmail, in order to stop attacks and preserve your modesty. Furthermore, call the police should anyone look at you funny. And remember, if you do get raped, it's completely illegal, okay? And, it really would be a good idea to simply not look at people in order to identify whether they are male. It's rude and bordering on the fetishistic.

So just to recap, don't play sport, invent nonsense events, wear armour plating, don't look at people, and call the police if it all goes wrong.

Or.

Segregate.

Many parents still think that girl guides is single sex. The policy says that it is single gender without explicitly stating 'mixed sex'.
Incorrect
Parents are told the organisation is single SEX. But it is not.

I think this is one of the most disturbing elements of the situation, the secrecy, the (rather deliberate) obfuscation of the actual policy, as well as silencing the whistleblowers.

If it is such a 'great policy', then ffs, promote it openly. Explain it to parents, let them judge it. But this stealth genderist policy is the only way they can slip it through. But worse, it is not allowed to be discussed openly that will allow proper safeguarding for a mixed-sex situation.

I noted that Julie Bentley stepped down as CEO at the end of June. It smacks of 'sabotage and run'. Throw some penis into the GG, then not hang around to see the consequences of the policy. Clearly on some level, Bentley must have realised what this would do to the Guides? Otherwise, why not stick around and sort out the mess that will result from this?

Prawn.