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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another Girlguiding update

556 replies

AgnesBadenPowell · 22/07/2018 21:48

I've been a bit quiet lately. I'm under investigation, which I can't discuss in any detail, although my membership is now at risk. In the meantime, I'm still a leader and Girlguiding has not changed its stance on trans issues. The following is a bit of a stream of consciousness but I'm feeling quite troubled by it and need to let it out! I'd also be interested in what parents of rainbows think.

I took my rainbows on a sleepover this weekend. It was great! It also really bought home to me the risks posed by the trans policy. I feel quite upset and tearful about it.

We had 20 rainbows in a church hall. Three women leaders, including me, also slept in the main hall - at one end, out of the way, with our own sleeping mats and bags etc - but in the same room. The other women leaders slept in an adjoining room (more of a lobby really).

The adults used the gents toilets and the girls used the ladies and disabled facilities. Despite this some girls weren’t too bothered and just changed in the hall! One nosy rainbow followed me into the gents - luckily I was only brushing my teeth and not changing - and of course I shooed her out.

How would a set up like this (which is pretty common) work with a trans child or adult? We could look for new venues with more rooms/options but Girlguiding’s stance is that the trans child and adult should use the facilities of their chosen gender. And if parents aren’t aware of the single gender/mixed sex policy, they aren’t in a position to complain or take their children out.

On a personal note, the two other leaders in the hall are women that I don’t know very well. One of them I’ve only met once before, she’s a brownie leader who came to help so we met our ratios. My sleeping mat was right next to hers as there wasn’t much space. It was fine but I could not have done this with a self identified (ie male at birth) transwoman. I don’t know any woman who would feel safe sleeping right next to a male bodied person they had only met once before. And I should never, ever be expected to do so. For all the make up, dresses, female names, most transwomen do not have bottom surgery and retain their male genitalia. I would never be expected to share sleeping accommodation with a man I don’t know (or even ones I do - I’m not sharing a room with my male colleague on a business trip next week) so why would it be acceptable in Girlguiding, provided the male said he feels female?

It really hit home that it’s only fair and reasonable to expect people of the same sex to share spaces like this. I really don’t want to make trans people feel bad or left out - but my dignity, my girls dignity and privacy, is every bit as important as theirs.

OP posts:
Datun · 22/07/2018 22:09

Hi AgnesBadenPowell

This is it, isn't it? The GG policy will allow that.

Girls and women are just collateral damage.

BossWitch · 22/07/2018 22:08

Thanks for the update. Well done for keeping going. My dd is currently 4, and on the list for Rainbows. I was a brownie, guide, young leader and briefly an adult leader. I've always wanted an dds I had to go into guiding but I am so worried about the current trans policy. I genuinely don't know what to do about sending her.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 22/07/2018 22:03

Thank you for the update.

And sending you Flowers. I appreciate you standing up to safeguard your Rainbows and all the girls in Guiding. Thank you.

boatyardblues · 22/07/2018 22:03

Agnes Flowers

Melamin · 22/07/2018 21:54

Thank you. You sound very sensible.

UpstartCrow · 22/07/2018 21:53

Thank you for the update. I share your concerns, and I'm disturbed to hear you are under investigation for your stance on safeguarding.