"Gender identity has a durable biological underpinning"

Schizophrenia also has biological underpinnings, and we aren't about to reorganize society around the perceptions of people with that any time soon. Why should gender be any different?

Saw this article today. It argues that there's a 'gender module' in the brain that even without hormone treatment is 'feminine' in transwomen's brains and 'masculine' in transmen's brains.

Transgender women tend to have brain structures that resemble cisgender women, rather than cisgender men. Two sexually dimorphic (differing between men and women) areas of the brain are often compared between men and women. The bed nucleus of the stria terminalus (BSTc) and sexually dimorphic nucleus of transgender women are more similar to those of cisgender woman than to those of cisgender men, suggesting that the general brain structure of these women is in keeping with their gender identity.

On the other hand, this article in New Scientist says the situation isn't so simple:

It’s unlikely that gender identity has such a straightforward biological explanation, however, and some studies have identified features of the transgender brain that appear closer to the natal sex, casting doubt on the developmental mismatch hypothesis. In a 2015 study from the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience, a comparison of the distribution of gray matter in 55 female-to-male and 38 male-to-female transgender adolescents with cisgender controls in the same age group found broad similarities in the hypothalami and the cerebellums of the transgender subjects and cisgender participants of the same natal sex.

Neuroscience is very much in its infancy, and subject to preconceptions. I also think it's worrying that liberals are so keen on believing in natural mental differences between the sexes. That kind of thinking hasn't worked out so well for women in the past.

There can be pyschological effects of suffering gender dysphoria and mental health debated in pyschology, but the opinion the root is based in pyschology is no longer considered valid.

There are literally shelves full of books in every university library in the country that explain how gender works and study gendered behaviour as a phenomenon. The vast majority conclude that gender is socially constructed. This is still the case. The weight of evidence and expert opinion still agrees on this. Since experts in biology cannot observe "identity" or "gender" as a phenomenon and wouldn't even know how to begin to deal with it scientifically I very much question whether they are the people to start explaining its origin. You can only study gender with psychology, sociology and philosophy. How would a medical doctor test a person's gender? Would they use a stethoscope, or a heart monitor? How about a brain scan to see if they prefer the X Factor or Match of the Day? Identity is not a biological phenomenon. Not gender identity, not racial identity, not religious or cultural identity. It is like saying doctors can now find the origin of the French language in French people's brains.

Even if the brain were pink or blue and we could actually see gender on a PET scan, it still wouldn’t explain why gender identity should have more salience than reproductive sex when it comes to creating safe spaces and positive discrimination to rectify millennia of sex-based subjugation.

This is it.

I would be interested in knowing if identical twins grow up away from each other do they both have GD? Nature v nurture. I imagine the number of twins who grew up separately and one or both then exhibited GD is rather limited though so it could never be more that anecdotal.

Sorry about the shades of The Parent Trap in there.

Not all endocrinologists are on board with this - Michael Laidlaw for one, is speaking out, and he has written other articles besides this one:
www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/04/21220/

This is an interesting talk by an endocrinologist albeit on the Christian spectrum, but with a valid voice about what's happening

Also the twins data has been discussed elsewhere and it is under 30% of congenital twins who experience GD, so the other 70% don't. It might be most to it, but further studies are needed.

Money is a great motivator, trans population income will be in particular interesting as it isn't a one of but a life long path.

First No harm website has further data and case studies of how health professionals have to contend with the situation. Love cx

Zombie lies never die because people who shall go nameless never stop telling them.

garam gender incongruence’ is dual listed in icd-11 and is included under ‘mental, behavioural or neurodevelopmental disorders’

I would just like to say I am right. I could provide some irrelevant references to prove it but I can’t be bother.

And just like climate change deniers the expert opinion does not actually say what the promoters claim it says.

garam If it is not a mental health condition is it being viewed as purely social issue or that somebody is literally in the wrong body. The first would mean nobody should need to medically transition. The second world need some serious evidence to back it up.

JackyHolyoake
The Endocrine Society is a USA organisation .. therefore private practice .. therefore motivated by earning income ... has zero relevance to UK NHS.

The Endocrine Society is a worldwide fellowship, including uk endocrinologists. Biology doesn't change whether your in the US or the UK.

SarahCarer
Like other people I'm really alarmed at this coming from endocrinologists. Psychology is not their field. It financially benefits them for more children to fit the criteria of GD. It financially benefits them for more children to be given hormones. It is sick that they are pushing this and reveals the world of medicine as having a very dark side

Gender Dysphoria is not considered in itself to be rooted in pyschology anymore, not only will the Endo's tell you that, but also pyschologists. That is why it has been dismissed as a mental disorder, in the dsm5 and the new icd-11 removes it entirely from mental health to sexual health.

There can be pyschological effects of suffering gender dysphoria and mental health debated in pyschology, but the opinion the root is based in pyschology is no longer considered valid.

Climate change deniers will fight against expert opinion, and you may be able to find a forum a bit like this dedicated to denying climate change, where armchair amateurs try to smugly pick apart expert opinions as though they have equal merit.

Just sayin'

I would expect there to be a biological underpinning in some individuals. But that doesn't explain the social contagion aspect.

Even if the brain were pink or blue and we could actually see gender on a PET scan, it still wouldn’t explain why gender identity should have more salience than reproductive sex when it comes to creating safe spaces and positive discrimination to rectify millennia of sex-based subjugation.

YY

And so what if there is a biological underpinning of dysphoria? It's not evidence of an opposite sex soul.

And why oh f*g why psychologists cannot see this when it is staring them in the f**g face is quite frankly beyond me.

Gender is a social construct. There are innate neurological differences that affect how children respond to social cues about gender.

ASC

if you ask an endocrinologist how to use hormones to treat gender dysphoria, that's what they will do.

They won't tell you how to diagnose gender dysphoria, or what the alternative treatments are, or how to treat a person holistically.

To a hammer, everything is a nail.

I don't get that @JackyHolyoake Would a senior UK endocrinologist's salary not also be affected by the size of his or her department? And are you aware that many NHS consultants also have private practice?

Like other people I'm really alarmed at this coming from endocrinologists. Psychology is not their field. It financially benefits them for more children to fit the criteria of GD. It financially benefits them for more children to be given hormones. It is sick that they are pushing this and reveals the world of medicine as having a very dark side. Two things I would expect to see: 1. Because brains have plasticity it is likely that people who have been socially conditioned with masculinity, whether directly, as male born, or indirectly as females performing masculinity, their patterns of thought, language and processing may have created similarities that can be observed. 2. Gender is socially constructed. Human brains vary in the extent to which they act instinctively on social cues. So I would expect twins to both have GD if one has. Neither of these facts in any way confirms the idea that gender identity has a durable biological underpinning.

The Endocrine Society is a USA organisation .. therefore private practice .. therefore motivated by earning income ... has zero relevance to UK NHS.

Clinicians should avoid harming individuals (via hormone treatment) who have conditions other than gender dysphoria/gender incongruence and who may not benefit from the physical changes associated with this treatment.

For those who want the truth, here is the actual document which does not say what they are claiming it says to the surprise of absolutely not one single person here.
academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/11/3869/4157558

We don't need to waste time and and bore everyone with a hopelessly convoluted debate about neuroscience and brain sex. We just need to keep bringing it back to the reality and social significance of sexed bodies.

This.