The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

I don't think you have a legitimate boundary =

I know what you are all saying, I realise how you feel, I know what you think but fuck you, I don't care about you, I don't care about your safety, I only care about myself and my rights and what I want and me, me, ME, ME, MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Think I'll just keep this handy every time these threads appear and the same bullshit is spewed all over posts of women saying NO and being ignored anyway.

Interestingly enough everyone I've ever seen suggest that those situations are OK has been a man.

Sorry. Not sorry.

Equally appalling would be suggesting feminists think it's ok for female teachers to coerce children into sex.

I do hope no-one is suggesting that

MaryZ I didnt derail the pie thread either. Someone suggested blockers would be good for paedophiles and I explained why they weren't and used the word cis to refer to non-trans kids and got my head bitten off for it... because apparently self ID matters... as long as you're not trans and want people to respect that you're a woman i guess - judging by the amount of times i've been called a man on this board already!

Datun, I've posted two examples counter to the narrative you believe in - and a government ran phone survey which also counters your narrative.

Nope. You're trying to pretend that women are just as dangerous as men both sexually and violently.

Here, in the UK, there are 120 women in prison for sex offences and 14,000 men. There are 120 transwomen in prison, almost half are there for sex offences. There are no transmen in any prison.

Of the 5000 women in prison, overall, 60% of them have been sexually assaulted or raped.

There are two bodies a week of women, killed by men.

Amnesty and the UN both promote single sex segregation, because otherwise crimes against women go up.

You think if you shout loud enough that we are making this up and we are just as much a threat, you'll get somewhere.

You won't. We're not.

You have to remember, we are also talking from direct experience. There are 12 million women on mumsnet.

We talk.

As do you. And you telling us our boundaries are not legitimate means you are the problem.

Crone - I did read but havent had chance to properly look at what you posted yet.

and I'm sorry if I sounded snappy there! I just often see kinda of crappy comments around this subject and I guess i let my emotions get the better of me. Again, very sorry! :)

Added to which, a person would also have to have some questionable principles in order to try to derail the PIE thread.

Not that we are allowed to conflate the two things, that would be appalling, obviously.

pickleville

i think there's a lot of issues with just straight up asking people this stuff. Masculinity so fragile and all that, and a lot of men feel will likely feel that admitting something like this happened to them is unmanly.

I'm sure you've seen the stories of teachers who rape their students - look at the responses to those stories when the child is a young girl vs
a young boy. Look at the way those stories are framed.

It's always a hot teacher in a bikini photo when its a woman teacher doing the rape. It's framed as a relationship, treated like the child could consent. That they weren't using their position of power to coerce a child into sex. And the comments are sickening; with things like "lucky kid!" being all too common.

to deny that our culture plays a huge role in how open we are about talking about sexual violence is especially silly for apparent gender critical feminists.

The US legal definition of rape isn’t biological-sex or body-part specific though - so women can be rapists in the US:
www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition-rape

In the UK, rapists must be penis-owners, by law:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_English_law

(Although women can be accessories to rape and sentenced as though they are rapists)

‘Forced envelopment’ would be sexual assault in both countries, so really, we should be comparing serious sexual-assaults-by-women-on-men with rape to find comparable statistics in the UK.

None of this is an argument against sex seperated spaces because even if women are committing forced envelopment left right and centre, to ‘innies’ cannot do it to each other.

In order to minimise ‘forced envelopment’ a d keep dicky people safe you need to keep cunty people and dicky people apart.
Happily enough, this also minimises the risk of rape to cunty people, so win-win.

Sex segregated spaces for all.

Oh, I don't think there is any chance at all of you kowtowing to any principles at all

I don't believe someone who comes on to a feminist discussion board and joins thread after thread to say "but what about the poor men" they are much harder done-by than mere women and (more importantly, obviously) "but what about meeeeeeeee", I'm the hardest done by of all" has any principles.

You want to answer my first paragraph your friendly?
Best stay away from those rapey women then. Buh bye.

YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans

Thanks for clearing that up about arousal. I have no idea what would happen to a man's penis in such a situation. I actually went and asked my husband the question before posting , but his response was that he didn't know because it had never happened to him! I expect men vary in their responses as well, but I was expressing surprise that the a man's response to being in a terrifying situation might be to get an erection.

The difference (as I'm sure you know) between being forcibly penetrated and being forced to penetrate is that if you are raped, you do not need to be aroused, but if you are doing the penetrating with a penis, you do have to be aroused.

You will notice that I was asking a question, in the hope that someone would be able to answer it - I don't think trying to educate myself about anything should be viewed as disgusting.

Anyway, as you've read my previous post, perhaps you can stop spouting the nonsense about equal numbers.

I'd really rather have a friendly neighborhood dog than a "friendly" neighborhood MRA...

(Luckily we have several of the former, and if there are any of the latter I've been lucky enough not to have them talk at me.)

A woman would know that there is a huge, huge difference between a woman being raped, and forced envelopment.

Not just the act itself, but the violence that can go with it.

How often does a woman force a man to penetrate her and then murder him?

MaryZ

friendly still doesn't mean I have to completely kowtow on my principles etc. I assume you think you're rather friendly too, yes? Are you kowtowing to trans people?

So why are you offended when i say exactly the same thing?

I ran the "sex is not binary" thing past DH last week and his response was "well what the fuck is it, then?". And then there was a whole evening of coding jokes, for which I blame TRAs.

This has been talked about on here before, and I've asked lots of people in real life.

I've only ever met one man ever who said he felt he'd been coerced into sex - and that was with his wife when he wanted the marriage over but she kept (apparently) taking her clothes off and getting into bed with him and forcing him to have sex so that he wouldn't leave.

No man, not one, has ever told me he was held down/tied up/forcibly "sheathed" or whatever.

I know lots of women don't talk about rape because they know people won't believe them, but some do. Are we really to believe that 50% of men have had this happen, but never mentioned it?

Friendly- do you honestly think women are as much of a sexual threat to men as men are to women? Talk to women, any woman, and I guarantee you they will have experienced sexual intimidation by men, probably many times, do you really think men say the same about women?

I get that you automatically sympathise with the male in those situations, Friendly.

As when India Willoughby criticised Karen Ingala Smith's Counting Dead Women site for giving men a bad press. The priorities are clear.

What an excellent idea! May I suggest the thread title "Me, and why I'm more important than you"?

(Hugs), HotRocker.

oldcrone

Yes arousal can happen in those circumstances, but also i would assume that some of those cases may be women in positions of 'power'

But its still a rarity as you say

A tiny number of people think sex is a binary

My typo! :) there’s a ‘not’ in there of course ...

Sex is most definitely a binary.

My autocorrect is a sadist. As you were.

Hell, HotRocker, that's awful. . The extra level of betrayal that comes from believing someone to be your friend must have made it so much harder to deal with.

Friendly - could you stop banging the drum for male victims just for ten seconds, or start a new thread about it?

Crikey, so many of my friends think I'm a bigot for my views about self Id, I think I will show them this thread.