The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

GeorgeFayne

Toilets.

R0wantrees

Love it! Guilty as charged. What are the preferred terms in the UK for such places? Loo? WC? Restroom? Facility? This is one instance where I don't have a problem adjusting my language. :)

I do struggle a little with talk of public bathrooms: 'two nations separated by the same language' !
obviously far more important issues in the thread

Anyway since when has a public bathroom been a public space? Public bathrooms are sex segregated, so they are spaces intended for the members of that sex class, just as much as private members clubs are segregated spaces for those private members. The area with the sinks and hand dryers is just as sex segregated as the toilet cubicles themselves, so actually, my boundaries as a woman are just as valid in those spaces as well.

There must be quite a few MRAs who get rather shocked that they are stripped of their own superpower on an anonymous forum.

Of 12 million women.

All talking.

And not giving a toss what they think.

Having to actually contemplate responding to the word no, without using their superpower of male privilege? How novel. How impossible.

How revealing.

Honestly, if evidence is ever needed that men who transition don't lose their privilege and typical male behavior, I'm using this thread..

I'd like to see some of the decades of "data" that show a genetic or neurologic basis for trans.

But you know what? Even if such data existed, I STILL wouldn't want biologic males (i.e. penis-havers) in women's spaces.

I want a designated third space that ANY individual who has a need for privacy could safely use. Not just trans or gender non-conforming individuals who may feel uncomfortable sharing vulnerable spaces with their biologic peers, but for people with special medical needs. Leave women's spaces alone and just for women.

Yourfriendly, would you be willing to agree that if a third neutral space were available, you would be content using it?

It's almost as though we can tell what's coming as we frame the word no.

Do you think we have supernatural powers of premonition?! We have the mad skillz?

Or, perish the thought, could it be something to with being a woman and subject to this level of dull, mundane, predictability on a daily basis? Surely not!

Douglas Adams said "It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

It is, or should be, an equally well-known fact that those penis-owners who most want to enter women's spaces are, ipso facto, those least suited to be allowed in.

Very apt quote, 👍

I don't think you have a legitimate boundary

I dont think posting the whole comment is making it any better to be honest

Douglas Adams said "It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

It is, or should be, an equally well-known fact that those penis-owners who most want to enter women's spaces are, ipso facto, those least suited to be allowed in.

It took ten seconds of "NO" from women for the incel/MRA rhetoric to flood right out, didn't it?

It's almost as though we can tell what's coming as we frame the word no.

Yup Datun, Yours 'gotcha' isn't quite the slam dunk see what I did there? An Americanism, sure Yours will get that they think it is.

Creepy is as creepy does.

If someone could earn all of the badges it would be a start

But they still couldn't come in our spaces with a penis

But they wouldn't want to because they'd understand why not

In a public space like a public bathroom? Your boundaries kinda get limited to the reasonable expectation of privacy. That is to say that as long as I'm not doing anything creepy or weird, and I'm just there to use the facilities and leave? I'm respecting all legitimate boundaries.

Seriously your?

You're setting yourself up as the arbitrator of limitations to women's boundaries?

Followed by you deciding (that's you deciding), what's creepy and weird.

And concluding that you, (that's you concluding) that you are respecting said boundaries.

So just to recap.

You decide the boundaries, you decide what is creepy behaviour and then you decide whether or not that constitutes the respect to boundaries that you are the arbiter of in the first place.

I promise I'm not just saying this, it's almost fucking funny.

The bit that baffles me as ever is why if one desperately wants to be and be accepted as one of the gels

one ignores every damn word they say about what being a gel actually means.

Perhaps we could introduce a badge scheme like the brownies:

I earn less than penis folk
Penis folk show them to me unrequested
Penis folk have made me scared
Penis folk want to tell me who I am and what I am
Penis folk want to tell me why I am so wrong about penis folk
Penis folk want me to understand that all my experience is piffle paffle blah blah
Penis folk want me to understand that everything is all about them all of the time.

YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans is a boundary smashing man.

Have you noticed we never get a response to the notion we keep repeating - that self-id opens up women's spaces to predatory men who WILL use it to gain access to us?

It's always just the same old 'you're being silly', 'transwomen are no threat to you' (despite increasing evidence to the contrary, e.g. recent TW who assaulted 4 women in women's prison) and now 'women are just as rapey as men'.

I've spent my life being afraid of men raping me in secluded places, dark streets, etc. Never once been afraid that a woman might. Statistics in the UK prove me right.

Well, my oh my.

It took ten seconds of "NO" from women for the incel/MRA rhetoric to flood right out, didn't it?

Gosh. How predictable it all is.

How womanly. Not.

America? Golly. All that way, culturally speaking, just to tell a bunch of women we're womaning wrong, eh, VickyEadie.

Exactly my point.

America? Golly. All that way, culturally speaking, just to tell a bunch of women we're womaning wrong, eh, VickyEadie.

I don't think you have a legitimate boundary

Yes, dear - we know that's what you think. That's why we don't like you. It's all so meet the new boss: same as the old boss.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels is spot on, YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans.

Taking your full comment, doesn't make you any less of a creep who thinks it's fun to ridicule women or girls for defending their right to women only spaces. You have no clue what being a woman is, as that is spelled out so clearly in this, and every other post you've made here & elsewhere. Not a fucking clue.

I note the use of the phrase "public bathroom" by our wind-up merchant, together with reference to some bizarre American data from a phone poll.

Just sayin'...

Tension
Feel free too. It's a quote which is entirely out of context and literally cuts out half of the sentence to make me look bad.

It's a smear. Use that tactic if you want, I'll just direct people to the original post and expose your lies. :)

Oh dear, is this where you think I'll quiver and faint at your "threat"?

My lies?

Your words.

And here's the full section the quote came from:

In a public space like a public bathroom? Your boundaries kinda get limited to the reasonable expectation of privacy. That is to say that as long as I'm not doing anything creepy or weird, and I'm just there to use the facilities and leave? I'm respecting all legitimate boundaries.

I don't think you have a legitimate boundary which extends into the cubicle next to yours and have no right to decide that person doesn't get to be there because you personally believe they aren't a woman, or that penises are weapons of mass destruction.

Taking your full comment, doesn't make you any less of a creep who thinks it's fun to ridicule women or girls for defending their right to women only spaces. You have no clue what being a woman is, as that is spelled out so clearly in this, and every other post you've made here & elsewhere. Not a fucking clue.

Some transwomen posting on MN would do well to actually read and digest what women say are their lived experiences from childhood to adults, and maybe have some self reflection on whether they really do understand what womanhood is, for women & young girls who actually live that.

Vickyyyy

I get torn between watching misogynists distress women, but knowing it's proving our point.

So very many women have said it's not the gender critical position that has finally swung their opinion, it's the trans position.

Which I think is quite a common reaction for people who don't necessarily call themselves feminists.

(Well, there are an awful lot more who do call themselves feminists once they encounter this ideology.)