It's a sad day when pie has power on mn

I'm afraid you can't have this both ways. Either you respect what people want to be called and will call them that - in which case call me a woman from now on and I'll stop calling you cis.

If you cannot stick to the topic - please do stop reading.

Not everything is about Trans. Get over it.

Message to everyone on the thread

A cynical person might think that the derailment of this thread by reference to trans issues could be a deliberate policy and an attempt to have the thread deleted.

Just a thought.

This thread seems to have devolved into arguing about my use of the word cis to refer to those who aren't trans. So I'm going to post this last response and stop reading.

You guys spend so much time calling trans women what you believe them to be and arguing about our right to self identify as women, even though we very clearly state we don't like being called men. Yet in the very next sentence you argue that your self identification matters, and you don't identify as cis - so we should all respect that and not call you cis.

I'm afraid you can't have this both ways. Either you respect what people want to be called and will call them that - in which case call me a woman from now on and I'll stop calling you cis.

Or you accept that sometimes people disagree with the labels we think apply to us and respect their right to do so - in which case I will not ask that you call me a woman nor will I tell you you're wrong and demand pronouns and labels. But this must go both ways, and you must also respect my right to disagree with your self identification and apply labels to you you don't like too.

The ball is in your court.

It's hard to imagine that child abuse would slip through the gaps and not be noticed by someone says YourFriendlyNeighbourhood Trans

The ignorance behind that disgusting statement is unbelievable.

Go and educate yourself about the activities of Myles Bradbury, Larry Nasser, Matthew Falder, Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale, Telford and on and on and on - and then come back and tell us that we've got it wrong.

I didn't think so, Bowl. But sometimes I get very confused and start to wonder if the earth really is flat (and populated by 6,000 year old dinosaurs).

maryz no, you are correct.

Cross sex hormones do NOT produce a ‘normal’ puberty of the opposite sex.

Puberty is vital for correct physical and mental development. No one has any idea of what the long term consequences of this truly are. Apart from the obvious ones which are sterility, cognitive damage of roughly 8-10 IQ points, osteoporosis, joint damage, endocrine damage, cardiovascular damage, metabolic damage...

There is no medically ethical justification for doing this to healthy children. None. At. All.

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.

From the guidelines at the top of the page.

Please do not use the term "cis" when asked not to. This is uncivil behaviour. It is against the guidelines and doing it three times within a six week period may lead to withdrawal of posting privileges.

You can call me cis when I’m an isomer or in proximity to the gene element I’m controlling.

And in no other circumstances whatsoever, thank you.

Friendly - stop using it on here please. I find the term offensive, as do the majority of society. Now respect that.

And when those children hit 16? Or a little earlier perhaps?

Cross sex hormones do NOT enable a ‘normal puberty just of the opposite sex.’

These children will be guinea pigs - there are no long term studies in the mental or physical effects of delaying puberty then using cross sex hormones.

This should not be happening. At all. These drugs are powerful, with lifelong effects. They are not a harmless pause button. They channel the child down the affirmative pathway. They are not licenced for gender questioning behaviour - they should not be being used full stop. On any child, for any reason other than precocious puberty while under strict supervision.

They are actively contraindicated for use in any young person (or indeed adult) with coexisting mental health conditions. they should not be being used at all*

How can I say this any clearer? These drugs should not be being used like this. These children are incredibly vulnerable.

I will not force or pressure you to call anyone cis if that's your choice - but please respect that my choice is to use the word cis where it applies. Thank you.

It never applies. Hope that helps.

And insisting on using cis to describe other people who have not been asked about how they think or feel (which is banned)

Cis does not equal no trans. Not trans = not trans.

"Most trans youth begin hormone therapy at around 16 and start going through the puberty the hormones are signalling for"

Are you implying that male children will go through a female puberty and vice versa? I don't believe that taking artificial hormones actually makes a boy go through a female puberty. Do you?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

No children are cis. That word is considered a slur by the moderation team, please stop using it.

Wow. Apologist much neighbourhoodtrans

^^ Let these posts be seen by everyone.

When trans 'experts' tell teachers that these children are very 'special' and different safeguarding rules apply to them, most busy teachers just accept the views of the 'experts'. They assume - as these organisations are in their schools - that they have been 'quality assured' in some way and that any advice takes full account of 'Working Together'. And when they're told that 'puberty blockers' are reversible and breast binding is perfectly 'normal' all their safeguarding experience about what is acceptable treatment for children goes out of the window because surely nobody would be in schools promoting things that actually harm children would they??
So these children are cast adrift and all the concerns and support that would normally be offered to those with eating disorders, the self harmers, the depressed and sad, the vulnerable are not available. Adults have been warned off these children and told that their interventions are likely to be transphobic.

So who does that leave available for a child to turn to??

To my mind, the current trend towards gender and sex being words that mean the same thing, is the worrying part.

There are groups stating that children can choose to change their gender at a very young age. There are also groups who seem to deliberately use the word sex rather than gender. Once these two words are muddled up in the general publics mind, it does not become a huge leap for certain interest groups to state that children can choose to exercise their sexual preferences as well as gender preferences at a very young age.

I think certain trans activists are being used to achieve an end. The end being that language around sex becomes meaningless and therefore impossible to safeguard.

I get your logic but... Most trans youth begin hormone therapy at around 16 and start going through the puberty the hormones are signalling for. So they wouldn't be pre-pubescent for long.

Some lobby groups are lobbying very hard for much earlier treatment access.

So I don't really think this worst case scenario idea you've got going on holds all that much water.

You really do have to wonder about people who are saying 'nothing to see here'.

So I don't really think this worst case scenario idea you've got going on holds all that much water.

Safeguarding is about planning for worst case scenarios.

Child abusers only need one child to target at a time so I don't see what numbers have got to do with it.

The point is school guidance written by trans lobby orgs has massive safeguarding holes in. When this is pointed out they don't change it, they attack the people pointing them out.

This creates a dangerous loophole that can be deliberately targeted and put kids at risk.

The guidelines need changed and the political environment where normal safeguarding concerns are being silenced or ignored urgently needs changed too

Cis kids
My kids are just kids