It's a sad day when pie has power on mn

They think it'll bring the paedophiles on here.
Thanks, Vicky, that is so stupid an approach from MN that it didn’t even occur to me!

Surely the wrong sort already know what PIE stands for

Exactly, Rufus. This is crazy.

Erosion/dismantling of safeguarding, personal/sexual boundaries, is something to be very concerned about. No matter what individual/group this is coming from. And those calling out such erosion, should not be berated for it.

Dead right. Predators work very hard to con people into ignoring their instincts. They constantly push boundaries, sometimes smiling and brushing away voiced concerns with a "don't be silly" "and "don't make a fuss". At the same time they recruit weak minded helpers and behind the scenes they rage and threaten, with the single minded aim of abusing their position. It has taken years and countless victims to establish safeguarding protocol.
Anyone who is doing anything to get around such protocol should be viewed with extreme suspicion.

As a general guideline, anyone/group that promotes the erosion of boundaries, is the exact person/group to be wary of.

Many rapists also 'groom' victims, get them to 'relax' their personal/sexual boundaries. Same with paedophiles (who generally have to schmooze the parents/guardians/teachers as well to gain access).

Erosion/dismantling of safeguarding, personal/sexual boundaries, is something to be very concerned about. No matter what individual/group this is coming from. And those calling out such erosion, should not be berated for it.

It was 19th Century feminists that gave us the Age of Consent in the first place. Before that, it was free-for-all-dick. They also gave us female-only toilets too. It seems that things are winding back to the good old Victorian times, doesn't it?

Surely the wrong sort already know what PIE stands for

Indeed Rufus, they do! And it is better that ordinary peeps know what it actually is, so they can spot the 'creep creep'.

Well said thebewilderness. Muzzled indeed. For a site that says it stands for 'free speech' I actually have not been on a site that restricts so much.

why was he banned/

Paedophiles have been on MN for ages.
You can see them in action, trying to silence concerns when a poster raises an incident that worries them.

MN replied, “We're a bit wary about changing the title as it may attract the wrong sort to Mumsnet. Hope you understand“

Surely the wrong sort already know what PIE stands for

this fucking forums full of the wrong sort

Goady fuckers all over the boards...no life no mates, id feel sorry for them if i could be arsed

A bit late for that after issuing an open invitation to every misogynist and predator who reads the news to come exercise your free speech here, and oh by the way we made new rules that muzzled the Feminists because some people are more equal than others

Well said!

Another story in the news about a rapist who "violated my whole life" says one victim and who sent explicit messages to a 13 yr old girl he 'befriended' Facebook.

These monsters will seek to go where our children go, to groom them online, to meet up. This is why, once again, I say no to penises in women's spaces.

Plenty of Fish rapist Lee Savage jailed - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-44928038

MN replied, “We're a bit wary about changing the title as it may attract the wrong sort to Mumsnet. Hope you understand“

A bit late for that after issuing an open invitation to every misogynist and predator who reads the news to come exercise your free speech here, and oh by the way we made new rules that muzzled the Feminists because some people are more equal than others.

They think it'll bring the paedophiles on here.

I asked MNHQ if the title of this thread could be expanded to read ‘Paedophile Information Exchange', (with the consent is the OP of course). As I had no idea what ‘pie’ meant and think many others won’t either. It is too important an issue to be misunderstood and so possibly scrolled past.

MN replied, “We're a bit wary about changing the title as it may attract the wrong sort to Mumsnet. Hope you understand“

I genuinely don’t understand. What does that mean? I asked MNHQ but have had no reply.

In my (not irrelevant) experience, child abuse is endemic and the occasions when it is noticed and appropriate action taken to stop it are the exception rather than the rule.

Indeed. And they aren't all interested in pre-pubescent children, as some hereabouts seem determined to pretend.

Safeguarding covers all minors, as does CSA/CSE.

It's hard to imagine that child abuse would slip through the gaps and not be noticed by someone

In my (not irrelevant) experience, child abuse is endemic and the occasions when it is noticed and appropriate action taken to stop it are the exception rather than the rule.

Anyone, for any reason, whether it’s a terrible purpose or a seemingly noble one, who dilutes it threatens these safeguarding frameworks needs to be challenged.

This. And if you (generic you) regard such challenges as an affront to your (generic your) noble purpose, then the problem is with you, not the people challenging you.

This goes for the Society of Soap Opera Addicts, trans lobby groups and any other group advocating for the dilution of safeguarding frameworks.

This is so terrifying and hard to understand that I just can’t process it all, despite how vitally important it is. I have so much respect for those of you who engage and research and share information.

It's hard to imagine that child abuse would slip through the gaps and not be noticed by someone
Santana warned us all that those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Either you respect what people want to be called and will call them that in which case call me a woman from now on and I'll stop calling you cis

Now that you have taken for yourselves all the words that used to apply to our half of the human population the only words left to describe us are the pejoratives you use on us when we tell you no.

I do not think this is a coincidence. ciswhorebitchcuntslut is all you give us, which tells us everything we need to know about you.

It's hard to imagine that child abuse would slip through the gaps and not be noticed by someone

My goodness. Really? How do you think child abuse happens? Abusers don’t just pick on kids whom no one cares about- they groom the child, they groom their families and the people around the child.

Children in loving attentive families are abused. Look at that case in the USA with the gymnastics team doctor - all those parents believed they were doing the right thing sending their girls to the top team doc. Imagine how those parents feel now - they were groomed too and their children abused.

Abusers will use ANY loophole, any weakness in safeguarding. They will take years to manoeuvre into positions of trust. They will train for specific jobs to get positions of trust.

This is WHY we have safeguarding guidelines in the first place - to put systems in place to prevent access, to prevent abuse. Anyone, for any reason, whether it’s a terrible purpose or a seemingly noble one, who dilutes it threatens these safeguarding frameworks needs to be challenged.

Right now we have a lot of people being very naive about what changes to the GRA and self id will mean. Most of those people will either be completely ignorant of safeguarding, not have thought it through and not be doing it deliberately to harm anyone.

But regardless of motive, what matters is outcome. And that outcome will not be positive.

Either you respect what people want to be called and will call them that - in which case call me a woman from now on and I'll stop calling you cis. The only person using banned terminology on this thread is you. On the fucking fwr board.

It's hard to imagine that child abuse would slip through the gaps and not be noticed by someone

And this has to be one of the most naive (if not intentionally misleading) comments I've ever read. Because social services, medics, police etc have never missed an opportunity to protect a vulnerable child, have they? You ever heard of Baby P? Victoria Climbie? Ayeeshia-Jayne Smith? Rochdale? Shall I go on?

Not to mention this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how child abusers work. I mean, it's not like kids below 16 aren't going through puberty already and despite that are still targets for abusers.

No, I don't think it is. They're attracted to pre-pubescents, that's why they target children and lose interest once the child matures into teenagehood.

Ergo the current trend for over-prescribing puberty blockers (see other thread currently going on this) is something that is no doubt being welcomed by PIE members, who, by the way, also describe themselves as "youth liberators".

Teachers are required - REQUIRED - to undertake safeguarding training every year. That training emphasises that no child's disclosure can be kept secret and teachers must report disclosures to the safeguarding officer.

The notion that some councils have already sent out 'guidance' to schools telling them that "some" disclosures can be kept secret is astonishing.

I've just come on to reiterate the hugely important points made by LangCleg above

Any dilution of safeguarding will inevitably lead to abuses. Transactivism within schools is diluting safeguarding. The motives of those leading this may be pure as the driven snow but nevertheless it still needs to stop as a matter of urgency because it's putting vulnerable children at risk.

The reason why we have so many major safeguarding failures and scandals in this country is because safeguarding and its weak points are sensitive topics that are typically censored and silenced. That silence is what allows abuse to happen. We have to be allowed to talk about this.

Wise words Maryzsnewaccount Thank you.

Either you respect what people want to be called and will call them that - in which case call me a woman from now on and I'll stop calling you cis.

People are pointing out the guidelines of this forum to you. On FWR, "we" are not allowed to call you "men" and "you" are not allowed to call us "cis".

Call me what you like elsewhere: I genuinely couldn't care less! These guidelines count here, however, and are MN''s attempt to mediate between the two perspectives. To post here, I'm afraid you'll have to abide by them just like everybody else has to.